Trent Williams & Kory Lichtensteiger Better Than You Thi

Talk about the Washington Redskins here. Do you bleed burgundy and gold?
CKRGiii
Online
Posts: 4536
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:56 pm
Location: 505 New Mexico repn

Postby cowboykillerzRGiii » Tue May 15, 2012 4:19 pm

Is it unfathomed that the qb hits were in FACT inflated by the horrible qb play? Yes a rook MIGHT have similar issues but to blame the line for an immobile qb that can't pull the trigger is simply an injustice.
Hike... 54321....1......1......1.............1 vs hike 54321 gone is a big difference. The way they call and don't call holding = the d line will get there at some point, rex earned every hit the line didn't give him any.

Trent is a beast a boss a mudda truckin problem... Everyone is quick to forget Trent digging trenches vs d ware.... Getting mean dirty and shutting him down. So much in fact he had to switch sides.
It's up to the qb to protect the (not) blind side. So I ask Wtf are u smoking, thinking our o line is godawful? Our qb play is all that earned that title. Show me stats of rex or beck getting rid of the ball ON TIME and taking hits.. o wait that never happened.

I hear you, but I don't feel you. You are tripping on a splinter and blaming the log. Look up and see the qb was the problem not the line.

Bom!
ROASTED!
Last edited by cowboykillerzRGiii on Wed May 16, 2012 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#21 forever in our hearts
...and yet ANOTHER record setting performance by "RG3 the third"!!!!
“I wanted to just… put his lights out ….because, you know, …Dallas sucks…” - Dexter Manley

|||||||
Posts: 4566
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:11 pm
Location: Somewhere, out there.

Postby UK Skins Fan » Tue May 15, 2012 4:29 pm

Nope, didn't understand a word of that!
Also available on Twitter @UKSkinsFan

DarthMonk
Posts: 4371
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 4:58 pm

Postby DarthMonk » Tue May 15, 2012 4:40 pm

cowboykillerzRED wrote: You are tripping on a splinter and blaming the log.


Maybe he's just trippin'. :idea:
Hog Bowl III, V Champion (2011, 2013)

Hognostication Champion (2011, 2013)


Scalp 'em, Swamp 'em,
We will take 'em big score!
Read 'em, Weep 'em Touchdown,
We want heap more!

^^^^^^^
Posts: 9015
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 4:52 pm

Postby frankcal20 » Tue May 15, 2012 8:29 pm

The problem was not so much the injuries it was the fact that we lost our entire left side of the line in about one game - center included. That's why our rushing stats were terrible in Oct. & Nov. We were shuffling guys around to find what was a fit. Next thing you know in Dec we were very effective in the running game averaging over 100 ypg. That was with backup talent and the coaches looking to see what the backups have.

I think we'll be fine.

And I should point out that if your line has top 15 talent at each position, you've probably got the best line in the NFL and the most expensive as well. Something Shanahan doesn't do and Allen has been known to be frugal.

Hog
Posts: 436
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:21 pm

Postby mastdark81 » Wed May 16, 2012 4:08 am

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
mastdark81 wrote:Colts downfall had more to do with the team organization/coaching then just quarterback. When Indy was successful and won their SuperBowl Peyton had Tarik Glenn, Jeff Saturday two all pro's...potential hall of famers.


I can't agree with that at all. They won 10 games in the previous season with the same exact squad. Subtract Peyton Manning, they win 2 games in 2011. I'm not discussing Superbowls, we're discussing the impact that a competent QB has in making the o-line look better than it is, or having a bad QB make it look worse than it is.


mastdark81 wrote:This is not a playoff line. We need an interior all-pro. Couldn't get an inch with this line if we really needed it in crunch time, shoot we can't even stop guys from blocking our field goals!!


1. We don't know how good/bad they are yet.

2. I find it even more difficult to accept your stance because it's not even accurate. http://www.thehogs.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=38059
Read that thread. Most of the blocks were due to defensive linemen...

Our starting OL took A LOT of injuries last year. They played well towards the end, if you can be unbiased.


mastdark81 wrote:Lets make a starting 5 of just NFC East olineman and how many Redskins would you put in that starting 5?

Riiiiiight. Thats why we last in the division each year.



Different systems, different requirements. Your point is moot and almost as baseless as the one I disproved above.

How many NFCE teams run the Mike ZBS? None.

I bet if we released some of our OL bodies, the Texans would scoop 1 or 2 of them up. Heck, they just snatched up John Beck. ZBS to ZBS, we have quality players, let's be real.



Systems? Yeah different techniques when it come 2 run blocking only but not much different now that Alex Gibbs cutblockin has been outlawed. Our problem has been talent. Yeah we improved definitely but Im saying not enough. I understand the importantance of oline chemistry but part of a line working together is everyone doing their job at the sane time. Our guys lose too many one on one battles to say they play well together

System is overrated...it all comes down to winning individual battles in the oline/dline . For qb its diff and thats why they picked up Beck...qb and oline is waaaay diff soyour point on that is moot. You dont think everyteam in the NFL incorpirate zoneblockin? Every playbook has it...its just we run this forn of blocking more consistently. Cant think of 1 guy thats the best at his pisition juuuuust in our division.

Manning is a special case BC he calls the majority of his own plays...but even still you disregard the fact that they were ELITE only when had two all olineman and only were good without them even when Manning did lastplay...

Im talkin bout winnin superbowls not just being good enough to win 8-10 games. And m

Hog
Posts: 436
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:21 pm

Postby mastdark81 » Wed May 16, 2012 4:09 am

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
mastdark81 wrote:Colts downfall had more to do with the team organization/coaching then just quarterback. When Indy was successful and won their SuperBowl Peyton had Tarik Glenn, Jeff Saturday two all pro's...potential hall of famers.


I can't agree with that at all. They won 10 games in the previous season with the same exact squad. Subtract Peyton Manning, they win 2 games in 2011. I'm not discussing Superbowls, we're discussing the impact that a competent QB has in making the o-line look better than it is, or having a bad QB make it look worse than it is.


mastdark81 wrote:This is not a playoff line. We need an interior all-pro. Couldn't get an inch with this line if we really needed it in crunch time, shoot we can't even stop guys from blocking our field goals!!


1. We don't know how good/bad they are yet.

2. I find it even more difficult to accept your stance because it's not even accurate. http://www.thehogs.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=38059
Read that thread. Most of the blocks were due to defensive linemen...

Our starting OL took A LOT of injuries last year. They played well towards the end, if you can be unbiased.


mastdark81 wrote:Lets make a starting 5 of just NFC East olineman and how many Redskins would you put in that starting 5?

Riiiiiight. Thats why we last in the division each year.



Different systems, different requirements. Your point is moot and almost as baseless as the one I disproved above.

How many NFCE teams run the Mike ZBS? None.

I bet if we released some of our OL bodies, the Texans would scoop 1 or 2 of them up. Heck, they just snatched up John Beck. ZBS to ZBS, we have quality players, let's be real.



Systems? Yeah different techniques when it come 2 run blocking only but not much different now that Alex Gibbs cutblockin has been outlawed. Our problem has been talent. Yeah we improved definitely but Im saying not enough. I understand the importantance of oline chemistry but part of a line working together is everyone doing their job at the sane time. Our guys lose too many one on one battles to say they play well together

System is overrated...it all comes down to winning individual battles in the oline/dline . For qb its diff and thats why they picked up Beck...qb and oline is waaaay diff soyour point on that is moot. You dont think everyteam in the NFL incorpirate zoneblockin? Every playbook has it...its just we run this forn of blocking more consistently. Cant think of 1 guy thats the best at his pisition juuuuust in our division.

Manning is a special case BC he calls the majority of his own plays...but even still you disregard the fact that they were ELITE only when had two all olineman and only were good without them even when Manning did lastplay...

Im talkin bout winnin superbowls not just being good enough to win 8-10 games. And m

---
User avatar
Posts: 18570
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 12:55 pm
Location: AJT

Postby Chris Luva Luva » Wed May 16, 2012 7:20 am

mastdark81 wrote:Im talkin bout winnin superbowls not just being good enough to win 8-10 games. And m


8-10 games got the Giants to a superbowl, again, you're not making a valid point.

I ignored the rest because you think that our starting OL is on the FG team.
Fios - Arbiter of All Positive Knowledge

Kaz - "Was kinda obvious since we all know you're not a moron"

08 Champ
Posts: 13216
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 9:23 pm
Location: on the bandwagon

Postby SkinsJock » Wed May 16, 2012 7:38 am

skinsfan#33 wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:
Right now it is a Gods awful unit, one of the worst on the league in giving up QB hits.

I don't agree - it's not great but it is getting better - the ZBS and Mike will help him a lot

Look you can disagree with the "Gods awful" part because that is an opinion, but you can't disagree with the fact that the OL was one of the worst in the league in giving up QB his. You can't disagree with that because it isn't my opinion out is fact! Black and white. The Skins OL allowed more QB hits than every team in the NFL accept the CHawks and Rams.

Also, I don't expect the teams hits our sacks to go down with RG3 inserted, because history shows us QBs that hold the ball long and running QBs take more sacks and hits than most QBs. QBs typically do their worst in avoiding hits and sacks in their rookie season. Those are facts too

So if you want to go with your gut, great! I'll go with history and facts!


:shock: no worries - all I was taking issue with is the implication that the O line right now is a "God's awful unit" :lol:

The O line is not great but many of us saw signs that this unit would be better and with some additions and the importance of ensuring the safety of RGIII - this O line, right now, is not as bad as you imply ... that's all

you have fun with your facts and stats - I'll take what I see on the field :roll:

and

we are going to continually see improvement and better play from the O line :twisted:
We are very fortunate to have Kirk Cousins but Griffin has a huge upside IMO

Robert needs to continue to get better and to do that he needs time on the field - hopefully sooner than later

HAIL


Week 2 - 17-15

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 291
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:51 pm

Postby Mississippiskinsfan2 » Wed May 16, 2012 10:38 am

cowboykillerzRED wrote:Is it unfathomed that the qb hits were in FACT inflated by the horrible qb play? Yes a rook MIGHT have similar issues but to blame the line for an immobile qb that can't pull the trigger is simply an injustice.
Hike... 54321....1......1......1.............1 vs hike 54321 gone is a big difference. The way they call and don't call holding = the d line will get there at some point, rex earned every hit the line didn't give him any.

Trent is a beast a boss a nigga truckin problem... Everyone is quick to forget Trent digging trenches vs d ware.... Getting mean dirty and shutting him down. So much in fact he had to switch sides.
It's up to the qb to protect the (not) blind side. So I ask Wtf are u smoking, thinking our o line is godawful? Our qb play is all that earned that title. Show me stats of rex or beck getting rid of the ball ON TIME and taking hits.. o wait that never happened.

I hear you, but I don't feel you. You are tripping on a splinter and blaming the log. Look up and see the qb was the problem not the line.

Bom!
ROASTED!


Lets not put all the blame on rex ether now. If the WR dont get open fast enough or not at all what can he do? Then how about the RB and TE, are they doing their jobs when they are asked to pass block?

the 'mudge
Online
Posts: 14524
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:15 pm
Location: Curmudgeon Corner, Maine

Postby Countertrey » Wed May 16, 2012 10:57 am

Mississippiskinsfan2 wrote:
cowboykillerzRED wrote:Is it unfathomed that the qb hits were in FACT inflated by the horrible qb play? Yes a rook MIGHT have similar issues but to blame the line for an immobile qb that can't pull the trigger is simply an injustice.
Hike... 54321....1......1......1.............1 vs hike 54321 gone is a big difference. The way they call and don't call holding = the d line will get there at some point, rex earned every hit the line didn't give him any.

Trent is a beast a boss a nigga truckin problem... Everyone is quick to forget Trent digging trenches vs d ware.... Getting mean dirty and shutting him down. So much in fact he had to switch sides.
It's up to the qb to protect the (not) blind side. So I ask Wtf are u smoking, thinking our o line is godawful? Our qb play is all that earned that title. Show me stats of rex or beck getting rid of the ball ON TIME and taking hits.. o wait that never happened.

I hear you, but I don't feel you. You are tripping on a splinter and blaming the log. Look up and see the qb was the problem not the line.

Bom!
ROASTED!


Lets not put all the blame on rex ether now. If the WR dont get open fast enough or not at all what can he do? Then how about the RB and TE, are they doing their jobs when they are asked to pass block?
Sooooo... who was at fault for the REST of Grossman's career? Hmmmmmm?
"That's a clown question, bro"
- - - - - - - - - - Bryce Harper, DC Statesman
"But Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man
That he didn't, didn't already have"
- - - - - - - - - - Dewey Bunnell, America

#33
Posts: 4084
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 8:44 am

Postby skinsfan#33 » Wed May 16, 2012 11:08 am

cowboykillerzRED wrote:Is it unfathomed that the qb hits were in FACT inflated by the horrible qb play? Yes a rook MIGHT have similar issues but to blame the line for an immobile qb that can't pull the trigger is simply an injustice.
Hike... 54321....1......1......1.............1 vs hike 54321 gone is a big difference. The way they call and don't call holding = the d line will get there at some point, rex earned every hit the line didn't give him any.

Trent is a beast a boss a nigga truckin problem... Everyone is quick to forget Trent digging trenches vs d ware.... Getting mean dirty and shutting him down. So much in fact he had to switch sides.
It's up to the qb to protect the (not) blind side. So I ask Wtf are u smoking, thinking our o line is godawful? Our qb play is all that earned that title. Show me stats of rex or beck getting rid of the ball ON TIME and taking hits.. o wait that never happened.

I hear you, but I don't feel you. You are tripping on a splinter and blaming the log. Look up and see the qb was the problem not the line.

Bom!
ROASTED!


I'm sorry, you can blame the poor OL play on Rex if you want, but the team was 3rd worst for QB hits in 2010 too. They were fifth worst in 2009. McNabb was the starter in 2010 and JC was the starter in 2009.

So you keep blaming all of the pass pro problems on the QB. Have fun in whatever reality you like to visit, I'll stay back here in the real world!

Bom!
ROASTED!
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain"
(It is time to roll the dice) Tai'shar Manetheren

"Duty is heavier than a Mountain, Death is lighter than a feather" Tai'shar Malkier

RIP James Oliver Rigney, Jr. 1948-2007

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 291
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:51 pm

Postby Mississippiskinsfan2 » Wed May 16, 2012 11:14 am

Countertrey wrote:
Mississippiskinsfan2 wrote:
cowboykillerzRED wrote:Is it unfathomed that the qb hits were in FACT inflated by the horrible qb play? Yes a rook MIGHT have similar issues but to blame the line for an immobile qb that can't pull the trigger is simply an injustice.
Hike... 54321....1......1......1.............1 vs hike 54321 gone is a big difference. The way they call and don't call holding = the d line will get there at some point, rex earned every hit the line didn't give him any.

Trent is a beast a boss a nigga truckin problem... Everyone is quick to forget Trent digging trenches vs d ware.... Getting mean dirty and shutting him down. So much in fact he had to switch sides.
It's up to the qb to protect the (not) blind side. So I ask Wtf are u smoking, thinking our o line is godawful? Our qb play is all that earned that title. Show me stats of rex or beck getting rid of the ball ON TIME and taking hits.. o wait that never happened.

I hear you, but I don't feel you. You are tripping on a splinter and blaming the log. Look up and see the qb was the problem not the line.

Bom!
ROASTED!


Lets not put all the blame on rex ether now. If the WR dont get open fast enough or not at all what can he do? Then how about the RB and TE, are they doing their jobs when they are asked to pass block?
Sooooo... who was at fault for the REST of Grossman's career? Hmmmmmm?

What does that have to do with our o-line? And I didnt say he shouldnt take some of the blame, did I?

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 1684
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:44 am
Location: Houston, TX

Postby markshark84 » Wed May 16, 2012 1:02 pm

skinsfan#33 wrote:
cowboykillerzRED wrote:Is it unfathomed that the qb hits were in FACT inflated by the horrible qb play? Yes a rook MIGHT have similar issues but to blame the line for an immobile qb that can't pull the trigger is simply an injustice.
Hike... 54321....1......1......1.............1 vs hike 54321 gone is a big difference. The way they call and don't call holding = the d line will get there at some point, rex earned every hit the line didn't give him any.

Trent is a beast a boss a nigga truckin problem... Everyone is quick to forget Trent digging trenches vs d ware.... Getting mean dirty and shutting him down. So much in fact he had to switch sides.
It's up to the qb to protect the (not) blind side. So I ask Wtf are u smoking, thinking our o line is godawful? Our qb play is all that earned that title. Show me stats of rex or beck getting rid of the ball ON TIME and taking hits.. o wait that never happened.

I hear you, but I don't feel you. You are tripping on a splinter and blaming the log. Look up and see the qb was the problem not the line.

Bom!
ROASTED!


I'm sorry, you can blame the poor OL play on Rex if you want, but the team was 3rd worst for QB hits in 2010 too. They were fifth worst in 2009. McNabb was the starter in 2010 and JC was the starter in 2009.

So you keep blaming all of the pass pro problems on the QB. Have fun in whatever reality you like to visit, I'll stay back here in the real world!

Bom!
ROASTED!


Agree. The OL has been our most consistent problem for quite some time (of course an argument for QB can be made also -- obviously) -- and we consistently do nothing about it. I find it comical that people all wonder why our offense has not been efficient over the years. We have blamed it on some many things while blatently disregarding our horrendous OL. You can analyize our OL at the surface by merely looking at sacks and rushing yards -- but that doesn't adequately show how efficient an OL is. Until we seriously upgrade 3 of our 5 OL personnel (or somehow they drasticaly improve), we will continue to have our offensive issues.

A "fine" OL is not going to cut it with this team. Generally, the best offenses also have the best OLs. This team will be no different. I can't tell you how many teams have had great skills players without an OL and failed. The OL is the heart of an offense.
Last edited by markshark84 on Wed May 16, 2012 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
RIP Sean Taylor. You will be missed.

CKRGiii
Online
Posts: 4536
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:56 pm
Location: 505 New Mexico repn

Postby cowboykillerzRGiii » Wed May 16, 2012 1:04 pm

skinsfan#33 wrote:
cowboykillerzRED wrote:Is it unfathomed that the qb hits were in FACT inflated by the horrible qb play? Yes a rook MIGHT have similar issues but to blame the line for an immobile qb that can't pull the trigger is simply an injustice.
Hike... 54321....1......1......1.............1 vs hike 54321 gone is a big difference. The way they call and don't call holding = the d line will get there at some point, rex earned every hit the line didn't give him any.

Trent is a beast a boss a nigga truckin problem... Everyone is quick to forget Trent digging trenches vs d ware.... Getting mean dirty and shutting him down. So much in fact he had to switch sides.
It's up to the qb to protect the (not) blind side. So I ask Wtf are u smoking, thinking our o line is godawful? Our qb play is all that earned that title. Show me stats of rex or beck getting rid of the ball ON TIME and taking hits.. o wait that never happened.

I hear you, but I don't feel you. You are tripping on a splinter and blaming the log. Look up and see the qb was the problem not the line.

Bom!
ROASTED!


I'm sorry, you can blame the poor OL play on Rex if you want, but the team was 3rd worst for QB hits in 2010 too. They were fifth worst in 2009. McNabb was the starter in 2010 and JC was the starter in 2009.

So you keep blaming all of the pass pro problems on the QB. Have fun in whatever reality you like to visit, I'll stay back here in the real world!

Bom!
ROASTED!


Ok those qbs, although better then rex, were not good.. also the starting oline from Campbells day is not the same as this unit. Last year was different from mcnugget and I suspect this year will be fine tuned as well. So comparing different players to THIS line, and bad qb play to bad qb play is really irrelevant.
In this world our current oline is at least average and gaining depth.
Roasted.
#21 forever in our hearts
...and yet ANOTHER record setting performance by "RG3 the third"!!!!
“I wanted to just… put his lights out ….because, you know, …Dallas sucks…” - Dexter Manley

08 Champ
Posts: 13216
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 9:23 pm
Location: on the bandwagon

Postby SkinsJock » Wed May 16, 2012 1:27 pm

markshark84 wrote:... Agree. The OL has been our most consistent problem for quite some time (of course an argument for QB can be made also -- obviously) -- and we consistently do nothing about it.

soo .... are you implying that while it looks like we've maybe done something about the QB position - this franchise has done 'nothing about' the O line?
I find it comical that people all wonder why our offense has not been efficient over the years. We have blamed it on some many things while blatently disregarding our horrendous OL. You can analyize our OL at the surface by merely looking at sacks and rushing yards -- but that doesn't adequately show how efficient an OL is. Until we seriously upgrade 3 of our 5 OL personnel (or somehow they drasticaly improve), we will continue to have our offensive issues.

A "fine" OL is not going to cut it with this team. Generally, the best offenses also have the best OLs. This team will be no different. I can't tell you how many teams have had great skills players without an OL and failed. The OL is the heart of an offense.


:shock: DUH!

let's get real here - this FO has made some progress - they had very little to work with and they know better than you how important the O line is

the FO is doing something about that

building an offensive line does not happen overnight - especiallly given what they had to begin with

this FO will continue to add offensive players to ensure this offense has all the pieces it needs to execute and be effective AND that we have depth

this FO knows a whole lot more than we do about how to build a consistently competitive franchise - they are doing that :D
We are very fortunate to have Kirk Cousins but Griffin has a huge upside IMO

Robert needs to continue to get better and to do that he needs time on the field - hopefully sooner than later

HAIL


Week 2 - 17-15

Return to Hog Wash - Washington Redskins Football