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cowboykillerzRGiii
CKRGiii
Joined: 29 Jul 2010
Posts: 3163
Location: 505 New Mexico repn
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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Is it unfathomed that the qb hits were in FACT inflated by the horrible qb play? Yes a rook MIGHT have similar issues but to blame the line for an immobile qb that can't pull the trigger is simply an injustice.
Hike... 54321....1......1......1.............1 vs hike 54321 gone is a big difference. The way they call and don't call holding = the d line will get there at some point, rex earned every hit the line didn't give him any.
Trent is a beast a boss a mudda truckin problem... Everyone is quick to forget Trent digging trenches vs d ware.... Getting mean dirty and shutting him down. So much in fact he had to switch sides.
It's up to the qb to protect the (not) blind side. So I ask Wtf are u smoking, thinking our o line is godawful? Our qb play is all that earned that title. Show me stats of rex or beck getting rid of the ball ON TIME and taking hits.. o wait that never happened.
I hear you, but I don't feel you. You are tripping on a splinter and blaming the log. Look up and see the qb was the problem not the line.
Bom!
ROASTED!
Last edited by cowboykillerzRGiii on Wed May 16, 2012 12:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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UK Skins Fan
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Joined: 02 Mar 2005
Posts: 4437
Location: Somewhere, out there.
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Nope, didn't understand a word of that! |
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DarthMonk
DarthMonk
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 3205
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| cowboykillerzRED wrote: | You are tripping on a splinter and blaming the log.
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Maybe he's just trippin'.  |
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frankcal20
^^^^^^^
Joined: 24 Mar 2004
Posts: 8965
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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The problem was not so much the injuries it was the fact that we lost our entire left side of the line in about one game - center included. That's why our rushing stats were terrible in Oct. & Nov. We were shuffling guys around to find what was a fit. Next thing you know in Dec we were very effective in the running game averaging over 100 ypg. That was with backup talent and the coaches looking to see what the backups have.
I think we'll be fine.
And I should point out that if your line has top 15 talent at each position, you've probably got the best line in the NFL and the most expensive as well. Something Shanahan doesn't do and Allen has been known to be frugal. |
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mastdark81
Hog
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 371
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 4:08 am Post subject: |
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| Chris Luva Luva wrote: | | mastdark81 wrote: | | Colts downfall had more to do with the team organization/coaching then just quarterback. When Indy was successful and won their SuperBowl Peyton had Tarik Glenn, Jeff Saturday two all pro's...potential hall of famers. |
I can't agree with that at all. They won 10 games in the previous season with the same exact squad. Subtract Peyton Manning, they win 2 games in 2011. I'm not discussing Superbowls, we're discussing the impact that a competent QB has in making the o-line look better than it is, or having a bad QB make it look worse than it is.
| mastdark81 wrote: | | This is not a playoff line. We need an interior all-pro. Couldn't get an inch with this line if we really needed it in crunch time, shoot we can't even stop guys from blocking our field goals!! |
1. We don't know how good/bad they are yet.
2. I find it even more difficult to accept your stance because it's not even accurate. http://www.thehogs.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=38059
Read that thread. Most of the blocks were due to defensive linemen...
Our starting OL took A LOT of injuries last year. They played well towards the end, if you can be unbiased.
| mastdark81 wrote: | Lets make a starting 5 of just NFC East olineman and how many Redskins would you put in that starting 5?
Riiiiiight. Thats why we last in the division each year. |
Different systems, different requirements. Your point is moot and almost as baseless as the one I disproved above.
How many NFCE teams run the Mike ZBS? None.
I bet if we released some of our OL bodies, the Texans would scoop 1 or 2 of them up. Heck, they just snatched up John Beck. ZBS to ZBS, we have quality players, let's be real. |
Systems? Yeah different techniques when it come 2 run blocking only but not much different now that Alex Gibbs cutblockin has been outlawed. Our problem has been talent. Yeah we improved definitely but Im saying not enough. I understand the importantance of oline chemistry but part of a line working together is everyone doing their job at the sane time. Our guys lose too many one on one battles to say they play well together
System is overrated...it all comes down to winning individual battles in the oline/dline . For qb its diff and thats why they picked up Beck...qb and oline is waaaay diff soyour point on that is moot. You dont think everyteam in the NFL incorpirate zoneblockin? Every playbook has it...its just we run this forn of blocking more consistently. Cant think of 1 guy thats the best at his pisition juuuuust in our division.
Manning is a special case BC he calls the majority of his own plays...but even still you disregard the fact that they were ELITE only when had two all olineman and only were good without them even when Manning did lastplay...
Im talkin bout winnin superbowls not just being good enough to win 8-10 games. And m |
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mastdark81
Hog
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 371
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 4:09 am Post subject: |
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| Chris Luva Luva wrote: | | mastdark81 wrote: | | Colts downfall had more to do with the team organization/coaching then just quarterback. When Indy was successful and won their SuperBowl Peyton had Tarik Glenn, Jeff Saturday two all pro's...potential hall of famers. |
I can't agree with that at all. They won 10 games in the previous season with the same exact squad. Subtract Peyton Manning, they win 2 games in 2011. I'm not discussing Superbowls, we're discussing the impact that a competent QB has in making the o-line look better than it is, or having a bad QB make it look worse than it is.
| mastdark81 wrote: | | This is not a playoff line. We need an interior all-pro. Couldn't get an inch with this line if we really needed it in crunch time, shoot we can't even stop guys from blocking our field goals!! |
1. We don't know how good/bad they are yet.
2. I find it even more difficult to accept your stance because it's not even accurate. http://www.thehogs.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=38059
Read that thread. Most of the blocks were due to defensive linemen...
Our starting OL took A LOT of injuries last year. They played well towards the end, if you can be unbiased.
| mastdark81 wrote: | Lets make a starting 5 of just NFC East olineman and how many Redskins would you put in that starting 5?
Riiiiiight. Thats why we last in the division each year. |
Different systems, different requirements. Your point is moot and almost as baseless as the one I disproved above.
How many NFCE teams run the Mike ZBS? None.
I bet if we released some of our OL bodies, the Texans would scoop 1 or 2 of them up. Heck, they just snatched up John Beck. ZBS to ZBS, we have quality players, let's be real. |
Systems? Yeah different techniques when it come 2 run blocking only but not much different now that Alex Gibbs cutblockin has been outlawed. Our problem has been talent. Yeah we improved definitely but Im saying not enough. I understand the importantance of oline chemistry but part of a line working together is everyone doing their job at the sane time. Our guys lose too many one on one battles to say they play well together
System is overrated...it all comes down to winning individual battles in the oline/dline . For qb its diff and thats why they picked up Beck...qb and oline is waaaay diff soyour point on that is moot. You dont think everyteam in the NFL incorpirate zoneblockin? Every playbook has it...its just we run this forn of blocking more consistently. Cant think of 1 guy thats the best at his pisition juuuuust in our division.
Manning is a special case BC he calls the majority of his own plays...but even still you disregard the fact that they were ELITE only when had two all olineman and only were good without them even when Manning did lastplay...
Im talkin bout winnin superbowls not just being good enough to win 8-10 games. And m |
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Chris Luva Luva
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Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 17801
Location: AJT
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| mastdark81 wrote: | | Im talkin bout winnin superbowls not just being good enough to win 8-10 games. And m |
8-10 games got the Giants to a superbowl, again, you're not making a valid point.
I ignored the rest because you think that our starting OL is on the FG team. |
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SkinsJock
08 Champ
Joined: 24 Feb 2004
Posts: 11514
Location: New England
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| skinsfan#33 wrote: | | SkinsJock wrote: | | Quote: | | Right now it is a Gods awful unit, one of the worst on the league in giving up QB hits. |
I don't agree - it's not great but it is getting better - the ZBS and Mike will help him a lot |
Look you can disagree with the "Gods awful" part because that is an opinion, but you can't disagree with the fact that the OL was one of the worst in the league in giving up QB his. You can't disagree with that because it isn't my opinion out is fact! Black and white. The Skins OL allowed more QB hits than every team in the NFL accept the CHawks and Rams.
Also, I don't expect the teams hits our sacks to go down with RG3 inserted, because history shows us QBs that hold the ball long and running QBs take more sacks and hits than most QBs. QBs typically do their worst in avoiding hits and sacks in their rookie season. Those are facts too
So if you want to go with your gut, great! I'll go with history and facts! |
 no worries - all I was taking issue with is the implication that the O line right now is a "God's awful unit" 
The O line is not great but many of us saw signs that this unit would be better and with some additions and the importance of ensuring the safety of RGIII - this O line, right now, is not as bad as you imply ... that's all
you have fun with your facts and stats - I'll take what I see on the field 
and
we are going to continually see improvement and better play from the O line  |
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Mississippiskinsfan2
Hog
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 290
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| cowboykillerzRED wrote: | Is it unfathomed that the qb hits were in FACT inflated by the horrible qb play? Yes a rook MIGHT have similar issues but to blame the line for an immobile qb that can't pull the trigger is simply an injustice.
Hike... 54321....1......1......1.............1 vs hike 54321 gone is a big difference. The way they call and don't call holding = the d line will get there at some point, rex earned every hit the line didn't give him any.
Trent is a beast a boss a nigga truckin problem... Everyone is quick to forget Trent digging trenches vs d ware.... Getting mean dirty and shutting him down. So much in fact he had to switch sides.
It's up to the qb to protect the (not) blind side. So I ask Wtf are u smoking, thinking our o line is godawful? Our qb play is all that earned that title. Show me stats of rex or beck getting rid of the ball ON TIME and taking hits.. o wait that never happened.
I hear you, but I don't feel you. You are tripping on a splinter and blaming the log. Look up and see the qb was the problem not the line.
Bom!
ROASTED! |
Lets not put all the blame on rex ether now. If the WR dont get open fast enough or not at all what can he do? Then how about the RB and TE, are they doing their jobs when they are asked to pass block? |
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Countertrey
the 'mudge
Joined: 09 Jan 2004
Posts: 12768
Location: Curmudgeon Corner, Maine
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| Mississippiskinsfan2 wrote: | | cowboykillerzRED wrote: | Is it unfathomed that the qb hits were in FACT inflated by the horrible qb play? Yes a rook MIGHT have similar issues but to blame the line for an immobile qb that can't pull the trigger is simply an injustice.
Hike... 54321....1......1......1.............1 vs hike 54321 gone is a big difference. The way they call and don't call holding = the d line will get there at some point, rex earned every hit the line didn't give him any.
Trent is a beast a boss a nigga truckin problem... Everyone is quick to forget Trent digging trenches vs d ware.... Getting mean dirty and shutting him down. So much in fact he had to switch sides.
It's up to the qb to protect the (not) blind side. So I ask Wtf are u smoking, thinking our o line is godawful? Our qb play is all that earned that title. Show me stats of rex or beck getting rid of the ball ON TIME and taking hits.. o wait that never happened.
I hear you, but I don't feel you. You are tripping on a splinter and blaming the log. Look up and see the qb was the problem not the line.
Bom!
ROASTED! |
Lets not put all the blame on rex ether now. If the WR dont get open fast enough or not at all what can he do? Then how about the RB and TE, are they doing their jobs when they are asked to pass block? |
Sooooo... who was at fault for the REST of Grossman's career? Hmmmmmm? |
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skinsfan#33
#33
Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 3875
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| cowboykillerzRED wrote: | Is it unfathomed that the qb hits were in FACT inflated by the horrible qb play? Yes a rook MIGHT have similar issues but to blame the line for an immobile qb that can't pull the trigger is simply an injustice.
Hike... 54321....1......1......1.............1 vs hike 54321 gone is a big difference. The way they call and don't call holding = the d line will get there at some point, rex earned every hit the line didn't give him any.
Trent is a beast a boss a nigga truckin problem... Everyone is quick to forget Trent digging trenches vs d ware.... Getting mean dirty and shutting him down. So much in fact he had to switch sides.
It's up to the qb to protect the (not) blind side. So I ask Wtf are u smoking, thinking our o line is godawful? Our qb play is all that earned that title. Show me stats of rex or beck getting rid of the ball ON TIME and taking hits.. o wait that never happened.
I hear you, but I don't feel you. You are tripping on a splinter and blaming the log. Look up and see the qb was the problem not the line.
Bom!
ROASTED! |
I'm sorry, you can blame the poor OL play on Rex if you want, but the team was 3rd worst for QB hits in 2010 too. They were fifth worst in 2009. McNabb was the starter in 2010 and JC was the starter in 2009.
So you keep blaming all of the pass pro problems on the QB. Have fun in whatever reality you like to visit, I'll stay back here in the real world!
Bom!
ROASTED! |
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Mississippiskinsfan2
Hog
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 290
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 11:14 am Post subject: |
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| Countertrey wrote: | | Mississippiskinsfan2 wrote: | | cowboykillerzRED wrote: | Is it unfathomed that the qb hits were in FACT inflated by the horrible qb play? Yes a rook MIGHT have similar issues but to blame the line for an immobile qb that can't pull the trigger is simply an injustice.
Hike... 54321....1......1......1.............1 vs hike 54321 gone is a big difference. The way they call and don't call holding = the d line will get there at some point, rex earned every hit the line didn't give him any.
Trent is a beast a boss a nigga truckin problem... Everyone is quick to forget Trent digging trenches vs d ware.... Getting mean dirty and shutting him down. So much in fact he had to switch sides.
It's up to the qb to protect the (not) blind side. So I ask Wtf are u smoking, thinking our o line is godawful? Our qb play is all that earned that title. Show me stats of rex or beck getting rid of the ball ON TIME and taking hits.. o wait that never happened.
I hear you, but I don't feel you. You are tripping on a splinter and blaming the log. Look up and see the qb was the problem not the line.
Bom!
ROASTED! |
Lets not put all the blame on rex ether now. If the WR dont get open fast enough or not at all what can he do? Then how about the RB and TE, are they doing their jobs when they are asked to pass block? |
Sooooo... who was at fault for the REST of Grossman's career? Hmmmmmm? |
What does that have to do with our o-line? And I didnt say he shouldnt take some of the blame, did I? |
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markshark84
Hog
Joined: 14 Jul 2008
Posts: 1460
Location: Houston, TX
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| skinsfan#33 wrote: | | cowboykillerzRED wrote: | Is it unfathomed that the qb hits were in FACT inflated by the horrible qb play? Yes a rook MIGHT have similar issues but to blame the line for an immobile qb that can't pull the trigger is simply an injustice.
Hike... 54321....1......1......1.............1 vs hike 54321 gone is a big difference. The way they call and don't call holding = the d line will get there at some point, rex earned every hit the line didn't give him any.
Trent is a beast a boss a nigga truckin problem... Everyone is quick to forget Trent digging trenches vs d ware.... Getting mean dirty and shutting him down. So much in fact he had to switch sides.
It's up to the qb to protect the (not) blind side. So I ask Wtf are u smoking, thinking our o line is godawful? Our qb play is all that earned that title. Show me stats of rex or beck getting rid of the ball ON TIME and taking hits.. o wait that never happened.
I hear you, but I don't feel you. You are tripping on a splinter and blaming the log. Look up and see the qb was the problem not the line.
Bom!
ROASTED! |
I'm sorry, you can blame the poor OL play on Rex if you want, but the team was 3rd worst for QB hits in 2010 too. They were fifth worst in 2009. McNabb was the starter in 2010 and JC was the starter in 2009.
So you keep blaming all of the pass pro problems on the QB. Have fun in whatever reality you like to visit, I'll stay back here in the real world!
Bom!
ROASTED! |
Agree. The OL has been our most consistent problem for quite some time (of course an argument for QB can be made also -- obviously) -- and we consistently do nothing about it. I find it comical that people all wonder why our offense has not been efficient over the years. We have blamed it on some many things while blatently disregarding our horrendous OL. You can analyize our OL at the surface by merely looking at sacks and rushing yards -- but that doesn't adequately show how efficient an OL is. Until we seriously upgrade 3 of our 5 OL personnel (or somehow they drasticaly improve), we will continue to have our offensive issues.
A "fine" OL is not going to cut it with this team. Generally, the best offenses also have the best OLs. This team will be no different. I can't tell you how many teams have had great skills players without an OL and failed. The OL is the heart of an offense.
Last edited by markshark84 on Wed May 16, 2012 1:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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cowboykillerzRGiii
CKRGiii
Joined: 29 Jul 2010
Posts: 3163
Location: 505 New Mexico repn
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| skinsfan#33 wrote: | | cowboykillerzRED wrote: | Is it unfathomed that the qb hits were in FACT inflated by the horrible qb play? Yes a rook MIGHT have similar issues but to blame the line for an immobile qb that can't pull the trigger is simply an injustice.
Hike... 54321....1......1......1.............1 vs hike 54321 gone is a big difference. The way they call and don't call holding = the d line will get there at some point, rex earned every hit the line didn't give him any.
Trent is a beast a boss a nigga truckin problem... Everyone is quick to forget Trent digging trenches vs d ware.... Getting mean dirty and shutting him down. So much in fact he had to switch sides.
It's up to the qb to protect the (not) blind side. So I ask Wtf are u smoking, thinking our o line is godawful? Our qb play is all that earned that title. Show me stats of rex or beck getting rid of the ball ON TIME and taking hits.. o wait that never happened.
I hear you, but I don't feel you. You are tripping on a splinter and blaming the log. Look up and see the qb was the problem not the line.
Bom!
ROASTED! |
I'm sorry, you can blame the poor OL play on Rex if you want, but the team was 3rd worst for QB hits in 2010 too. They were fifth worst in 2009. McNabb was the starter in 2010 and JC was the starter in 2009.
So you keep blaming all of the pass pro problems on the QB. Have fun in whatever reality you like to visit, I'll stay back here in the real world!
Bom!
ROASTED! |
Ok those qbs, although better then rex, were not good.. also the starting oline from Campbells day is not the same as this unit. Last year was different from mcnugget and I suspect this year will be fine tuned as well. So comparing different players to THIS line, and bad qb play to bad qb play is really irrelevant.
In this world our current oline is at least average and gaining depth.
Roasted. |
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SkinsJock
08 Champ
Joined: 24 Feb 2004
Posts: 11514
Location: New England
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| markshark84 wrote: | | ... Agree. The OL has been our most consistent problem for quite some time (of course an argument for QB can be made also -- obviously) -- and we consistently do nothing about it. |
soo .... are you implying that while it looks like we've maybe done something about the QB position - this franchise has done 'nothing about' the O line?
| Quote: | I find it comical that people all wonder why our offense has not been efficient over the years. We have blamed it on some many things while blatently disregarding our horrendous OL. You can analyize our OL at the surface by merely looking at sacks and rushing yards -- but that doesn't adequately show how efficient an OL is. Until we seriously upgrade 3 of our 5 OL personnel (or somehow they drasticaly improve), we will continue to have our offensive issues.
A "fine" OL is not going to cut it with this team. Generally, the best offenses also have the best OLs. This team will be no different. I can't tell you how many teams have had great skills players without an OL and failed. The OL is the heart of an offense. |
DUH!
let's get real here - this FO has made some progress - they had very little to work with and they know better than you how important the O line is
the FO is doing something about that
building an offensive line does not happen overnight - especiallly given what they had to begin with
this FO will continue to add offensive players to ensure this offense has all the pieces it needs to execute and be effective AND that we have depth
this FO knows a whole lot more than we do about how to build a consistently competitive franchise - they are doing that  |
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