is Joe Gibbs the most overrated coach of all time?

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is Joe Gibbs the most overrated coach of all time?

Postby the poster » Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:03 pm

to be overrated, you have to had some memorable accomplishments, so I acknowledge the 3 super bowl trophies. jim zorn would never be mentioned as an overrated coach. and of course, I have to mention everyone's favorite argument for Joe Gibbs....the fact he won 3 times with 3 different qbs. that is indeed great.

but, here is the argument for why Joe Gibbs may be the most overrated head coach of all time.

1. 2 of his 3 super bowl teams won their championship during a strike shortened season. so what, you say.

well, I don't need to give you all a math lesson on why a 9 game season, the same amount my pop Warner teams used to play, might not be enough to determine the playoff positioning and worthiness of a team (norv turner teams would have done pretty good in 9 game seasons, too) .

more importantly, NFL strikes tore other teams seasons apart. it became more about the strength of the front offices around the league in 1982 and 1987. the defending super bowl champions in both of the seasons bwfore the strikes were ill prepared to defend their titles the next year and Gibbs profited from this artificial advantage he was handed. he didn't have to face or worry about the best teams. he had a free pass those years. and so did his teams.

the redskins always had good teams but the strikes eliminated the other consistently good teams of that era. how the business of the sport tossed atidal wave over the competitive balance of the league (particularly in the stronger of the two conferences, the NFC) is how the redskins emerged from the sunami on top as the organization who best steered themselves through a tipsy turvy upside down campaign, twice. not necessarily how they were the best team.

the point is, gibbs' front office did a better for him than parcells And walsh's front offices did for them during those two strike shortened seasons. if they did better, maybe those teams would have made the playoffs like they normally did and maybe they would have faced the redskins and beat them, LiKE THEY NoRMALLY DID, and Gibbs only would have 1 sb ring. then what?

2. if you wanted to measure Joe gibbs against the very best head coaches of the era 1981-1991, what coaches would you choose? I'd choose bill Walsh and bill parcells.

Joe Gibbs record against the very best?

a TERRIBLE 6-11 against parcells including a shutout loss in the championship game. in fact 2 of his 6 wins came when parcels was just getting started as a head coach, when he had a 3-12-1 team his first year in 83.

in seasons where the playing field was even and both teams were above .500? you don't even want to ask. pure domination by parcells over Gibbs.

the other great of this era was Walsh:
2-4. Gibbs did slip by him Walsh in the NFC title game 24-21 for one of his two wins.

Gibbs total against the best coaches in this era? 8-15. not legendary at all.

3. come to think of it, the best teams of that era are often cited as the 49ers, giants, and redskins (all winning multiple super bowls).

Joe Gibbs record in the playoffs against the best organizations of the era?
1-2

4. what might be the most damning argument to Gibbs being overrated is while other legendary coaches (that gibbs shares accolades with), built their legacy on beating the best coaches and the best teams when it mattered the most, (bill parcells willing his 90 giants over the 2 time defending champion 49ers, Jimmy Johnson's cowboys beating the other top team at the time in back to back championship games) , Joe Gibbs' teams were skating through the playoffs playing teams like the Atlanta friggin falcons, or the Detroit friggin lions, twice (parcells was never given the free pass of somehow getting Detroit in January during a sb run!) or the Minnesota friggin Vikings, twice.

they faced an old cowboys team in 82 but give credit where credit is due because it's his only playoff game against a top team during a sb run that he won. the rest were pretty much power puff games (again, a direct result of the aftermath of 2 of the strike damaged sb seasons)

see, what redskin fans don't see, to understand about "critics" or what they call "haters" is that People , especially those whose vote counts typically like to evaluate a person or a team p against the very best in the biggest match. that's what competition is all about.

we don't care what Jimmy Connors does against bob jones, we want to compare him to John McEnroe based on their match ups against one or another.

celtics - hawks?? no! celtics-lakers.

and when you measure Gibbs up, it's first hard to find when his teams faced the best in January (they seem to avoid the best teams of the day more often than not), but when he did go up against the best...he lost two out of three times. not legendary at all.


4. the redskins were known for outspending everybody in the NFL in the 80s....it was said that their payroll was double that of division Philadelphia eagles. imagine the Yankees payroll to the orioles. if you scale it to 1980s payrolls, that's the advantage Gibbs had on so many sundays. you know how critics say anyone can manage the Yankees (because of their payroll)? well......

Gibbs came back in 2004 to a level playing field. with a salary cap in the league, his team couldn't spend much more than the eagles this time around or any other team ..........so this offered an opportunity to shut those critics up.

but.....

in 4 seasons, his record wasn't even .500.

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Postby tribeofjudah » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:21 am

ahhh...the poser strikes AGAIN....!!!
Proverbs 27:17 As iron sharpens iron,
so one person sharpens another.

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Postby ICEMAN » Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:31 am

Blasphemy I tell you...Blasphemy!!!

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Postby cowboykillerzRGiii » Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:42 am

I didn't read a word.. have no idea who posted it and don't care.. move to smack please mods.
Cuz my next post will kill this b85'&
#21 forever in our hearts
...and yet ANOTHER record setting performance by "RG3 the third"!!!!
“I wanted to just… put his lights out ….because, you know, …Dallas sucks…” - Dexter Manley

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Postby cowboykillerzRGiii » Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:42 am

I didn't read a word.. have no idea who posted it and don't care.. move to smack please mods.
Cuz my next post will kill this b85'&
#21 forever in our hearts
...and yet ANOTHER record setting performance by "RG3 the third"!!!!
“I wanted to just… put his lights out ….because, you know, …Dallas sucks…” - Dexter Manley

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Postby langleyparkjoe » Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:08 am

:lol:

I read the title and was like, wtf is dis person stupid or somethin?

Then I saw who started it and was like oh, well nevamind.

No one answer "it" relating to the topic, please don't.

So on that note, any of you Mods care to just delete this entirely or lock it? I'm sure 100% of us won't mind a bit.

Thanks in advance!
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Postby TimSkin » Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:22 am

Wow.....it must suck that bad to be a Browns fan if you have to resort to talking smack about a team that isn't in your own division let alone conference....I was gonna say how many dumps did it take to come up with this but somebody beat me to it.
HTTR!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Postby the poster » Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:49 am

thank you to the 100+ views. I appreciate your support.

For those that claim to not have read it, you also claim I am a Cleveland Browns fan. Don't spend your whole life lying.

For the three people who PM'd me and encouraged me that I won't get a fair deal here and that I know my stuff and in particular, raised facts in my latest post, thanks.

And now, onward to another classic, predictable Washington Redskins sub .500 season

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Postby langleyparkjoe » Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:25 am

*yawn*.. this is a waste of virtual space. can we move it into smack section please Mods?
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Postby Irn-Bru » Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:27 am

the poster, please check your PMs. :up:
"Last year I thought we'd win it all. This year I know we will." - Rex Ryan, on what would become the 8-8 2011 Jets

"Dream team." - Vince Young, on what would become the 8-8 2011 Eagles

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Postby SouthLondonRedskin » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:08 pm

the poster wrote:thank you to the 100+ views. I appreciate your support.

For those that claim to not have read it, you also claim I am a Cleveland Browns fan. Don't spend your whole life lying.


The Poster wrote:


...you're not getting rg3 though so forget about him....he's a Cleveland brown....and your meaningless win vs the giants at the end of the year cost u him (thank u very much).

you guys will get something like Matt Flynn plus Ryan tannehill. enjoy.


'thank u very much'....????

Someone gave themselves away a long time ago....

[-X
Here It Comes Again: Worst to First Baby!

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Postby the poster » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:17 pm

SouthLondonRedskin wrote:The Poster wrote:


...you're not getting rg3 though so forget about him....he's a Cleveland brown....and your meaningless win vs the giants at the end of the year cost u him (thank u very much).

you guys will get something like Matt Flynn plus Ryan tannehill. enjoy.



At that time, I didn't recognize how desperate the Redskins front office was going to act.

Not many people would think the Redskins would actually use 4 draft picks (including 3 first rounders) and a high 2nd rounder to select one player - any player.

To PROVE my point, if I go back in time then....will I find Redskin fans who were saying: "yes I'd like RG3 too.....but I dont want to trade more than a first and maybe a second." ? I would find a TON of YOU as well.

The redskins desperation fooled us ALL.

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Postby HarleyHog » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:23 pm

I have avoided responding to this ay-wipe as much as I can. I don't give a rat's patootie whether this maroon has signed affadavits from Gibbs himself confessing to incompetence, I DONT WANT TO SEE THIS ON OUR FAN SITE!!! Go AWAY. This is a place for OUR hopes, not your polluted bilgewater. Go prick your finger (sic) typing on a Cowpie site or somewhere else where your Insight and brilliance will be appreciated. If they offered a pay service to edit out your every comment, i would be the first subscriber. I dont want or expect my Hogmates to all toe the line or agree, only to actually CARE about and for the team. Incite is not the same as insight. May the poster awake some day to find his figgins hanging in a tree.

:explode:
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(BTW . . . we have RGIII now)

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Postby emoses14 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:45 pm

HarleyHog wrote: VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS

Incite is not the same as insight.

FUNNY POINT.

:explode: [/b]


Forgive the paraphrashing, but I wanted to get to my favorite part. I may have to steal that for my new signature.
I know he got a pretty good zip on the ball. He has a quick release. . . once I seen a coupla' throws, I was just like 'Yeah, he's that dude.'"

-Santana Moss on Our QB

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Postby HarleyHog » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:47 pm

emoses14 wrote:
HarleyHog wrote: VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS VALID POINTS

Incite is not the same as insight.

FUNNY POINT.

:explode: [/b]


Forgive the paraphrashing, but I wanted to get to my favorite part. I may have to steal that for my new signature.
No need to steal, freely given. HTTR
Everybody funny, now you funny too ...

"The measure of who we are is what we do with what we have." -Vince Lombardi

(BTW . . . we have RGIII now)

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