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Colorado Skin Fan
swine
Joined: 02 Jan 2011
Posts: 58
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:33 pm Post subject: Josh Gordon |
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I saw an interesting debate on another site about whether the Skins should consider drafting Josh Gordon, formerly from Baylor, in the supplemental draft.
The pro's are the guy is a physical beast. 6-4, 225, runs between a 4.3-4.4 40. I watched him at Baylor RGIIIs junior year and thought he was a sure fire first round talent for the next year.
The cons are he left Baylor for Utah after that year due to pot use he was about to be suspended for. He never played at Utah due to the transfer. I read after it happened that RGIII went to coach Briles to ask for him to get another chance. Obviously that didn't work out.
It seems he's anywhere from a 4th to 7th round supplemental pick. Should the Skins take a chance he has learned from his mistake or take a pass? Is it worth giving up a next year pick knowing we are already short? RGIII and he had quite a connection his junior year. |
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aswas71788
Hog
Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 1004
Location: Palm Springs, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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| I would say pass and keep our draft pick. I do not remember any of the supplemental draft candidates that have ever made it in the NFL as a starting player. Anyone is welcome to correct me if I am wrong. Ther3e may be some out there but I just can not remember any. I think we have enough young receivers to fill our needs. |
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Red_One43
Hog
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 4606
Location: D.C.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:51 am Post subject: |
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^ The only supplemental draft pick that comes to my mind that became a starter was Steve Walsh of the Cowboys. I remember him alternating starts with Troy. He was later traded to the Saints where he started with them
I would give up a 6th for Josh Gordon if RGIII vouched for him.
Here's a complete history of the Supplemental draft. Interesting names on there like Bernie Kosar and Chris Carter. I had forgotten that Jeremy Jarmon was a supplemental pick.
Late round supplemental picks don't have a good track record, but then again, Late round picks rarely make it any way.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_Draft |
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Colorado Skin Fan
swine
Joined: 02 Jan 2011
Posts: 58
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| Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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I would go for a 6th as well. I don't think you will typically find players with that type of physical talent and production at that stage of the normal draft. I've seen some opinions he could be better over time than Stephen Hill. I really haven't watched Stephen Hill much to know. Being short on picks for the next few years we need to find some late round gems to fill our void of 1st round selections.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6R_VKhnpNA |
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yupchagee
#14
Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 4110
Location: Louisville KY
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| Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| From what I've read, he is far from the sort of high character guy Shanny wants. Pass. |
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Red_One43
Hog
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 4606
Location: D.C.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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NFC team assigns Josh Gordon third-round grade
| Quote: | A source with knowledge of multiple teams’ thinking told PFT that Gordon has generated a third-round supplemental draft grade from at least one club. The club plays in the NFC.
The source also says high-ranking people at Baylor believed Gordon was a superior player to Kendall Wright during both receivers’ time in Waco. Wright was drafted with the 20th overall pick by the Titans this year.
Gordon didn’t end up with the same body of work as Wright in college, but NFL teams are enamored with his size, speed, and potential. In his lone full season at Baylor, Gordon recorded 42 receptions for 714 yards and seven touchdowns, averaging 17 yards per catch.
Tony Pauline of SI.com reported late Friday that Gordon will hold a personal Pro Day on Tuesday at Rice University. |
Probably means someone will take him with a 4th or 5th round pick.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/07/source-nfc-team-assigns-josh-gordon-third-round-grade/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxWbMH3OWQU&feature=related |
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Colorado Skin Fan
swine
Joined: 02 Jan 2011
Posts: 58
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| Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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A 3rd is definitely too high due to the character risk. A 5th might be worth it if there is a lot of perceived competition. I watched most of Baylor's games his last season and thought he was the most pro ready receiver on the roster.
You have to believe he can beat out everyone after Garcon, Morgan, Hankerson, and Moss to take the risk. I think he has the type of ability to do that and adds something different to the mix in terms of size.
Man can Griff deliver the ball! |
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Red_One43
Hog
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 4606
Location: D.C.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:49 am Post subject: |
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This:
| Quote: | The story on Josh, is that he was suspended after the 2010 season and did not play last year after transferring to Utah. He left Baylor after facing a number of incidents, including an indefinite suspension from the team before preseason camp began for a violation of team rules.
Gordon was arrested last October after being found in a car that had marijuana inside near the Baylor campus. Another story has him out cold in the drive-thru of a Taco Bell. |
VS
This:
| Quote: | While Gordon did not produce eye-popping numbers in his lone season as a collegiate starter, his measurables has certainly caught the attention of pro scouts. At 6'4" and 225 pounds, Gordon is a big, physical receiver with the size to create mismatches against smaller defensive backs, and his speed (Gordon was clocked in the low 4.3s in the 40-yard dash at Baylor) could make him a game-breaker at the NFL level.
"The 6-foot-4, 225-pound Gordon has good speed and looks like a pro receiver. He could be the most talented supplemental pick since linebacker Ahmad Brooks, who went to the Cincinnati Bengals in the third round in 2006 and later made noise as a member of the San Francisco 49ers." NFL.com's Gregg Rosenthal recently wrote. |
http://www.milehighreport.com/2012/7/2/3132394/2012-supplemental-draft-bio-josh-gordon-denver-broncos
http://www.nationalfootballauthority.com/2012/07/edited-mitch-qc-schedule-for-wednesday.html |
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Red_One43
Hog
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 4606
Location: D.C.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:03 am Post subject: |
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What Utah and Baylor folk have say recently about Josh Gordon's Character:
| Quote: | I spoke with someone at Utah in the Athletic Communications Department. Here's what they said on Josh Gordon:
"It wasn't the right situation for Josh so we parted ways."
However, someone in close to the Baylor football program was much more helpful. Keep in mind that these comments are made without bias. The person does not still have contact with Gordon, and Gordon was dismissed from Baylor University. Gordon has little to zero connection to Baylor as of now outside of still keeping in touch with some coaches.
"I'll tell you what I've been telling the NFL: Josh is a great kid, super talent, just bad decisions. All the coaches here liked him."
"He was arrested in October 2010, and suspended for 4 quarters, spread out over a couple of games I believe, but then failed a Baylor drug test late last spring. The Baylor administration kicked him out of school for the failed drug test, but Coach Briles went to bat for him with the 'higher ups', trying to let him stay. Coaches were disappointed about his leaving."
"Nobody thought he had a problem. It's not like he showed up to meetings or practice high or anything like that. I think he just got around with the wrong people not associated with the football team that persuaded his bad decisions."
"I'm not aware of any concerns the staff had for him coming out of high school, as his arrest in October of 2010 was his first incident.
"It seemed he got along with everyone on the team and I can't think of any point where he was in confrontation on field or off. If football is all he has to focus on, then he'll thrive because he knows this is his last chance. I've gotten a lot of calls from NFL scouts about him, so I know there's interest."
The fact that this same person has been the main voice for Josh Gordon's time at Baylor for NFL scouts should be noted. This glowing report of Gordon shows that he's not the major character risk that he has been portrayed as, at least during his time with Baylor. Coaches, the people who knew him best, didn't want a mistake mean he had to move on. |
http://network.yardbarker.com/college_football/article_external/2012_nfl_supplemental_draft_josh_gordon_scouting_report/11139131 |
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Red_One43
Hog
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 4606
Location: D.C.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:19 am Post subject: |
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Scouting Report on Josh Gordon:
| Quote: | As a receiver, he grabs the ball away from his body smoothly and has natural steps to transition upfield. He doesn't have dynamic turn and run ability after the catch, but never really had the chance to thrive in that area thanks to a lot of hitch routes arriving late thanks to a mis-timing quarterback (Robert Griffin as a sophomore).
Finally, his blocking ability really was apparent on film. He delivers a pop, extends, and finishes blocks (rare compared to most college big talent receivers). He also showed composure and focus on his blocks, keeping his hands in tight, keeping his feet upfield, not losing leverage vs. cornerbacks towards the play side, and not committing penalties. |
After reading the comments of the Baylor unamed source in my previous post and reading about his blocking ability, I believe that Shanny is inquiring about this guy. RGIII can tell Shanny a lot about the inside stuff that went on. The question is: What is RGIII saying to Shanny? For those who think that Shanny stays away from gambling on guys with character concerns - think Maurice Clarett. Not saying that it is the same situation, but I am saying that I won't be surprised if Shanny puts a bid on Gordon. What round? Depends on what RGIII says and what Shanny sees on the film. If Shanny likes him, in Shanny's mind, there is no player that he can't fix. 
http://network.yardbarker.com/college_football/article_external/2012_nfl_supplemental_draft_josh_gordon_scouting_report/11139131 |
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Deadskins
JSPB22
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
Posts: 14695
Location: Location, LOCATION!
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:52 am Post subject: |
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 OMG, Gordon smoked pot in college?!?
I'm more surprised that they're now testing for that in college.  |
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riggofan
Hog
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 2940
Location: Montclair, Virginia
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:52 am Post subject: |
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Interesting. Seems like a big difference between the media/word on the street and what the Baylor source is saying about the kid. Its cool that we have a player on our team who probably knows the real deal.
I saw something on espn yesterday about him likely costing a 3d round pick. Not sure we're in position to spend that.
6-4 225 though. Gotta like that! |
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frankcal20
^^^^^^^
Joined: 24 Mar 2004
Posts: 8965
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Question is, who's place does he take on the roster? What if it doesn't work out? You've given up on a player who's probably experienced and talented for an unproven guy who, while has measurables, hasn't done it at this level and also has had some problems. |
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Red_One43
Hog
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 4606
Location: D.C.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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Riggo, looking at our draft situation, I would have to agree that a third rounder might be too big a risk.
Let's say Shanny loves him and RGIII vouches for him and we get him with a third rounder:
*What's the chances of him playing well this year considering that he has been out of football for a year?
*We can say that he is next year's third with a head start, but he would be taking up a roster spot for this year.
*You can't cut him and risk him to the practice squad, so he is practically guaranteed a roster spot for this year.
*He has shown that he can return kicks, so, IMO, he would need to be our return guy to make it worthwhile.
The problem with Shanny is when he locks on to someone, he thows caution to the wind (Donovan), but the great thing about Shanny is when he is right, he good things happen (Terrell Davis, Rod Smith, Helu?, Royster?). I am not going to try to guess what Shanny will do.
Finally, think about another receiver that we know who had one good year of college ball. He was 6'2" 221 LBS 4.4 in the 40 at the combine. He did return kicks. Who am I talking about? Devin Thomas. Wideouts are risky business especially in a supplemental draft at #3 when you don't have a number one next year.
From what I read so far, I am now willing to go with a 5th rounder and if someone gets him earlier so be it. |
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Colorado Skin Fan
swine
Joined: 02 Jan 2011
Posts: 58
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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After Garcon, Morgan, Moss, and Hankerson I see very little in the way of potential game changers or players with high upside. I keep stepping up draft position each time I post based on the info I'm seeing in the thread. I know when it happened, I read that RGIII was one of several players that went to Briles to make a pitch to keep him on the team so we know where he stands.
i'm now in for a 4th. Shanny has a lot more intel that we do based on the contacts he made with the Baylor staff during the courting of RGIII. I'll trust he has the right info whatever he does.
This guy has such intriguing tangibles, he's hard to look past. Most importantly to me, he already has proven on-field chemistry with our new franchise leader. |
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