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skinsfan#33
#33
Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 3876
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| riggofan wrote: | | skinsfan#33 wrote: | | riggofan wrote: | | skinsfan#33 wrote: | | What did yesterday prove? Nothing! It only proves that we have a 1 for 3 or several 3 for 4 days coming. Cundiff is what he is; a 76% kicker! |
Not sure it works like that man. Gano was a 100% kicker in 2009. |
That is why I'm not talking about one year, I'm talking about what Cundiff is over his 8 or 9 year career.
Gano was trending up and Cundiff was trending down (back to his Norm). |
Its just a ludicrous statement over a meaningless number. You're taking the average of his FGM over his entire career and claiming that number tells us something meaningful, which it doesn't.
Gano was "trending up"? He missed 11 kicks in 2010 and then missed 10 kicks + an extra point in 2011. That's a 68% kicker improving to 75%.
Cundiff missed 5 kicks in 2009. 3 kicks in 2010 and 9 kicks in 2011. He hasn't missed 10 kicks in a season in his entire 10 year career.
Everybody who watched Gano the past two years knows he was horrible. You can hardly blame Shanahan for not wanting to ride it out with Gano in year three. If Cundiff continues to send the ball out of the endzone on kickoffs and misses less than 10 kicks this year, then Shanny upgraded the kicker position. |
He might have been horrible, but why replace him with someone worse?
I have no idea what you are talking about with respect to a kicker's past kicking averages has nothing to do with predicting how he might kick in the future. How can you not get that? It isn't a hard concept!
2011 Gano did miss 10 kicks. Five of those 10 were blocked (no fault to Gano's - just ask Rocca!) and one was botched so badly by Rocca that Gano had to stop, wait for Rocca to get the ball placed (tilted way to the side) and then kick the ball while he was standing still. Shockingly he missed. So he missed 10 kicks, 5 of those were blocked and one was a botched hold. Take those six kick out of the equation and he conncted on 31 out of 35 kicks, or 88.6 % (or pretty close to Condiffs PB season).
So Gano only missed 4 kicks when the rest of the kicking team did their job correctly and the kicking team missed 6 kicks when Gano did his job correctly! When the rest of the kicking team is responsible for MORE missed FG than the KICKER do you have a bad kicker or a bad kicking team?
It is OK, when Condiff finishes well below 80% and has 4 or 5 kicks blocked (because Danny Smith obviously hasn't fixed that problem!) everyone will be saying maybe the problem wasn't the kicker!
By the way the extra point was blocked too! |
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skinsfan#33
#33
Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 3876
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Deadskins wrote: | | riggofan wrote: | | then missed 10 kicks + an extra point in 2011. |
Yeah, and Sav Rocca missed that punt that went for a Saints TD yesterday.  |
I'm glad someone gets it.
Stand by for Cundiff having multiple blocked kicks! That is when he isn't missing the 24% he NORMALLY missed when things go correctly. |
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KazooSkinsFan
kazoo
Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 10021
Location: Kazmania
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| skinsfan#33 wrote: | | Deadskins wrote: | | riggofan wrote: | | then missed 10 kicks + an extra point in 2011. |
Yeah, and Sav Rocca missed that punt that went for a Saints TD yesterday. |
I'm glad someone gets it.
Stand by for Cundiff having multiple blocked kicks! That is when he isn't missing the 24% he NORMALLY missed when things go correctly. |
I don't think anyone is knocking Gano's stats overall, it's his misses at critical times which were just killers. A miss during the course of the game isn't the same, you know what you need to do to recover. But you miss at the end and you're toast. |
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riggofan
Hog
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 2957
Location: Montclair, Virginia
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| skinsfan#33 wrote: | | He might have been horrible, but why replace him with someone worse? |
Yeah, its a head scratcher. All of the great football minds working for the Redskins are not as smart as you. |
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riggofan
Hog
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 2957
Location: Montclair, Virginia
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| KazooSkinsFan wrote: | | I don't think anyone is knocking Gano's stats overall, it's his misses at critical times which were just killers. A miss during the course of the game isn't the same, you know what you need to do to recover. But you miss at the end and you're toast. |
Yeah but he has a good percentage. |
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tribeofjudah
tribe
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 5998
Location: SURF CITY, HB, CALI *** Occasionally flying into a SUPERNOVA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Deadskins wrote: | | tribeofjudah wrote: | | Deadskins wrote: | | KazooSkinsFan wrote: | | there's something wrong in Gano's head kicking under pressure |
That's the only reason I wasn't totally against the move. I liked Gano's leg strength, his youth, and that he seemed to be getting better each season, but he still had that failure under pressure aura, which is what I think is the reason Shanny showed him the door. |
Cundiff's leg proves to be stronger......no? He was booming it with many resulting in touchbacks.
Gano was not doing that. |
I'm pretty sure he was being asked not to. Shanny decided to just go for touchbacks this year. I think Gano could have kicked them through the endzone too, if he had wanted. |
Doesn't make sense..why change now. Shanny said that putting them on the 20 is always better (he said something to this effect at a presser)
If what you say is true....then Shanny was sabotaging Gano.. |
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riggofan
Hog
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 2957
Location: Montclair, Virginia
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Deadskins wrote: | | riggofan wrote: | | then missed 10 kicks + an extra point in 2011. |
Yeah, and Sav Rocca missed that punt that went for a Saints TD yesterday. |
You're right, my bad for counting the blocked kicks. I was just looking at those numbers. I assumed it was telling the whole story about the kicker. |
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skinsfan#33
#33
Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 3876
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| tribeofjudah wrote: | | Deadskins wrote: | | tribeofjudah wrote: | | Deadskins wrote: | | KazooSkinsFan wrote: | | there's something wrong in Gano's head kicking under pressure |
That's the only reason I wasn't totally against the move. I liked Gano's leg strength, his youth, and that he seemed to be getting better each season, but he still had that failure under pressure aura, which is what I think is the reason Shanny showed him the door. |
Cundiff's leg proves to be stronger......no? He was booming it with many resulting in touchbacks.
Gano was not doing that. |
I'm pretty sure he was being asked not to. Shanny decided to just go for touchbacks this year. I think Gano could have kicked them through the endzone too, if he had wanted. |
Doesn't make sense..why change now. Shanny said that putting them on the 20 is always better (he said something to this effect at a presser)
If what you say is true....then Shanny was sabotaging Gano.. |
It was reported several times that MS has told DS to stop being so cute with the kick offs. If the kicker can kick it out of the back of the end zone then they should do it.
Why he waited until this off season to tell Danny that, that is a good question?!?!
However, it was reported before training camp started that the Skins would consentrate on getting the ball as deep as possible on Kick offs. That may be one of the reasons for the change to Cundiff, but that doesn't make sense since Gano could have kicked out of the end zone on every kick. |
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skinsfan#33
#33
Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 3876
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| riggofan wrote: | | skinsfan#33 wrote: | | He might have been horrible, but why replace him with someone worse? |
Yeah, its a head scratcher. All of the great football minds working for the Redskins are not as smart as you. |
You are right, it is a head scratcher and no I'm not as smart (or smarter) than the coaches at Redskins park, but facts are facts. And the facts are Cundiff's career goes like this:
2002 - 12 of 19 (63.2%), +50 (0 of 1)
2003 - 23 of 29 (79.3%), +50 (3 of 5)
2004 - 20 of 26 (76.9%), +50 (0 of 2)
2005 - 5 - 8 (62.5%), +50 (0 of 1)
2006 - 0 -1 (0%), +50 (0 of 1)
2007 (unemployed)
2008 (unemployed)
2009 - 18 - 23 (78.3%), +50 (unavailable)
2010 - 26 - 29 (89.7%) PB, +50 (0 of 1)
2011 - 28 - 27 (75.7%), +50 (1 of 6)
He has had a FG % above 80% one time in ten years. He has kicked below his average of 77% six times (not counting his two unemployed years)! He has made TWO out of his last Eleven kicks +50 yards and that spans eight years!
So no I don't know as much as the coaches at Redskins park, but Cundiff's PAST performance has been MOSTLY pathetic (except for the years he was unemployed). There has to be a reason he is here and the coaches have to see something, I'm just saying it Frakin baffles me and I can't see it!!!! |
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SkinsJock
08 Champ
Joined: 24 Feb 2004
Posts: 11532
Location: New England
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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"I see" said the blind man ... 
when the other teams realize that Gano is available
AND
has a better leg than Cundiff
AND
can kick longer field goals than Cundiff
AND
he's younger than Cundiff
AND
he's able to kick EVERY kick through the end zone
he'll be snapped up and on another roster in a heart beat .... oh wait 
look - there's a number of us here that like Gano - he just did NOT show DS or Mike that he should keep his job here
I really hope he goes on to be good enough to get in the HOF - he was NOT going to have a chance at doing that here
THAT is all that really matters  |
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Deadskins
JSPB22
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
Posts: 14753
Location: Location, LOCATION!
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| SkinsJock wrote: | "I see" said the blind man ...
when the other teams realize that Gano is available
AND
has a better leg than Cundiff
AND
can kick longer field goals than Cundiff
AND
he's younger than Cundiff
AND
he's able to kick EVERY kick through the end zone
he'll be snapped up and on another roster in a heart beat .... oh wait
look - there's a number of us here that like Gano - he just did NOT show DS or Mike that he should keep his job here
I really hope he goes on to be good enough to get in the HOF - he was NOT going to have a chance at doing that here
THAT is all that really matters |
I agree that Shanny's decision is the only one that matters, but your reasoning is flawed in that other teams not picking him up means that he's no good. The other teams already have kickers. No reason to cut your starter a couple of days before the season, if you don't think the FA's a substantial upgrade (which Shanny obviously did). Cundiff was unemployed for two straight years before signing on with the Ravens. Does that mean he sucked worse than any other kicker in the NFL those years? |
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Red_One43
Hog
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 4606
Location: D.C.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| riggofan wrote: | | At some point this season, Cundiff is going to miss a kick and people will start complaining that Gano was cut. Let's just remember that Cundiff was rock solid against the Saints yesterday. Kickoffs were awesome. He was 4-4, and we needed every one of those to get the win. |
After, being hestitant to get on board, I am 100% on board - no matter what happens from here. His FGs turned out to be a must, but his TBs were priceless - the stats will never show how valuable those TBs were. |
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chiefhog44
**ch44
Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 2300
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Red_One43 wrote: | | riggofan wrote: | | At some point this season, Cundiff is going to miss a kick and people will start complaining that Gano was cut. Let's just remember that Cundiff was rock solid against the Saints yesterday. Kickoffs were awesome. He was 4-4, and we needed every one of those to get the win. |
After, being hestitant to get on board, I am 100% on board - no matter what happens from here. His FGs turned out to be a must, but his TBs were priceless - the stats will never show how valuable those TBs were. |
I was only questioning why you would replace one below average kicker for another, but if he continues kicking balls out of the end zone, and making from 45 in, I'm totally fine with that. |
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SkinsJock
08 Champ
Joined: 24 Feb 2004
Posts: 11532
Location: New England
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Deadskins wrote: | | I agree that Shanny's decision is the only one that matters, but your reasoning is flawed in that other teams not picking him up means that he's no good. The other teams already have kickers. No reason to cut your starter a couple of days before the season, if you don't think the FA's a substantial upgrade (which Shanny obviously did). Cundiff was unemployed for two straight years before signing on with the Ravens. Does that mean he sucked worse than any other kicker in the NFL those years? |
QUESTION - who was the kicker that Billy Cundiff beat out for the Ravens job? = Graham Gano
Gano and Cundiff were given a shot at getting the job in Baltimore - Cundiff clearly was better
PLUS
IF, as some claim - Mike wanted to see kickoffs go through the end zone and Gano and Rackers were trying to win the job here - what the hell happened - Gano beat out Rackers and then Mike took a look around and said - I'll take Cundiff
now we had Gano and as some claim he could kick it through the end zone any time he wanted to - MAYBE he should have
AND
despite the basis of staying with the kicker you have, as you implied - Mike decided to go with Cundiff
IF Gano is so great a kicker, why don't some of these other teams do the same thing Mike did?
MAYBE
because Gano is not as good as the guys they have now
I never said Gano was no good, I like Gano - it's really simple, Cundiff is better
some here need to get over it - Cundiff is here and he's staying  |
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SkinsJock
08 Champ
Joined: 24 Feb 2004
Posts: 11532
Location: New England
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| i've got to stop drinking and then posting |
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