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Red_One43
Hog
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 4606
Location: D.C.
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Kilmer72 wrote: | | Definitely going to take time. 2 more? I think 3 years but we will still win plenty of games and be competitive. |
Year three we should be seeing improvement - a movement in the right direction.
We see regression.
We have all seen the RGIII show, it is great, no doubt, but with all the receivers dropping the ball and the read option working, why were we running those wide runs for Morris early in the game? Why not keep the ball RGIII's hands with read options to Morris and pass action off the read options with a few keepers off the read? Kyle seems hell bent on showing off how many plays he can run rather than exploiting the weaknesses that he finds. I love the RGIII show and love what the Shannies that they tailored the O, but I don't like Kyle's play calling.
Haslet's three year plan for the D is a joke especially when you see the 1 year plans of Wade Phillips, Pagano (Colts), Harbaugh (Niners), and you see Belichick working primarily out of a 4-3 because of personnel. If your personnel cannot play your scheme tweak your scheme to find what fits them. Haz continues to try to fit different guys into his scheme - it isn't working event after year three i.e. no pass rush Cofield is a natural 4-3 guy - pass situations misx in some 4-3 with Cofield at DT.
Maybe this is the plan: We stick to the scheme and each year we keep adding players - IF this is the plan then you might be right that by year 5 when we have the money, we will get our players - that means another season like this one in year 4. Shanny seems to be alluding that this is what is happening. |
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tribeofjudah
tribe
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 5998
Location: SURF CITY, HB, CALI *** Occasionally flying into a SUPERNOVA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:06 pm Post subject: I'm KINDA mad....!!! |
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Kinda pi$$ed......let me count the ways:
1. that we freakin dropped over 10 balls (guys better grow some coconuts)
2. that Frenchy Pierre Garcon has not been a factor (heal up dude...come on)
3. that our pathetic D with the pathetic D coord....sux to high heaven
THE Steelers.....ARE WHO THE THOUGHT THEY WERE...!!! |
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Kilmer72
Hog
Joined: 07 Oct 2008
Posts: 1264
Location: Midland, VA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:11 pm Post subject: Re: I'm KINDA mad....!!! |
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| tribeofjudah wrote: | Kinda pi$$ed......let me count the ways:
1. that we freakin dropped over 10 balls (guys better grow some coconuts)
2. that Frenchy Pierre Garcon has not be a factor (heal up dude...come on)
3. that our pathetic D with the pathetic D coord....sux to high heaven
THE Steelers.....ARE WHO THE THOUGHT THEY WERE...!!! |
The drops did suck.
Garcon is a freak accident this year. Give it more time.
Besides our run defense it has been pathetic.
Don't worry about losing to the Steelers. If it came down to a tie breaker they aren't a factor really but I understand how you feel. |
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frankcal20
^^^^^^^
Joined: 24 Mar 2004
Posts: 8966
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Red_One43 wrote: | | Kilmer72 wrote: | | Definitely going to take time. 2 more? I think 3 years but we will still win plenty of games and be competitive. |
Year three we should be seeing improvement - a movement in the right direction.
We see regression.
We have all seen the RGIII show, it is great, no doubt, but with all the receivers dropping the ball and the read option working, why were we running those wide runs for Morris early in the game? Why not keep the ball RGIII's hands with read options to Morris and pass action off the read options with a few keepers off the read? Kyle seems hell bent on showing off how many plays he can run rather than exploiting the weaknesses that he finds. I love the RGIII show and love what the Shannies that they tailored the O, but I don't like Kyle's play calling.
Haslet's three year plan for the D is a joke especially when you see the 1 year plans of Wade Phillips, Pagano (Colts), Harbaugh (Niners), and you see Belichick working primarily out of a 4-3 because of personnel. If your personnel cannot play your scheme tweak your scheme to find what fits them. Haz continues to try to fit different guys into his scheme - it isn't working event after year three i.e. no pass rush Cofield is a natural 4-3 guy - pass situations misx in some 4-3 with Cofield at DT.
Maybe this is the plan: We stick to the scheme and each year we keep adding players - IF this is the plan then you might be right that by year 5 when we have the money, we will get our players - that means another season like this one in year 4. Shanny seems to be alluding that this is what is happening. |
Losing 18m killed our chances to get quality players in the defensive backfield. Carlos Rogers was never going to stay. I still am really pissed that we didn't resign Ryan Clark years ago because we still haven't found anyone as good as him and as cheap as he's been paid either. |
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Red_One43
Hog
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 4606
Location: D.C.
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| frankcal20 wrote: | | Red_One43 wrote: | | Kilmer72 wrote: | | Definitely going to take time. 2 more? I think 3 years but we will still win plenty of games and be competitive. |
Year three we should be seeing improvement - a movement in the right direction.
We see regression.
We have all seen the RGIII show, it is great, no doubt, but with all the receivers dropping the ball and the read option working, why were we running those wide runs for Morris early in the game? Why not keep the ball RGIII's hands with read options to Morris and pass action off the read options with a few keepers off the read? Kyle seems hell bent on showing off how many plays he can run rather than exploiting the weaknesses that he finds. I love the RGIII show and love what the Shannies that they tailored the O, but I don't like Kyle's play calling.
Haslet's three year plan for the D is a joke especially when you see the 1 year plans of Wade Phillips, Pagano (Colts), Harbaugh (Niners), and you see Belichick working primarily out of a 4-3 because of personnel. If your personnel cannot play your scheme tweak your scheme to find what fits them. Haz continues to try to fit different guys into his scheme - it isn't working event after year three i.e. no pass rush Cofield is a natural 4-3 guy - pass situations misx in some 4-3 with Cofield at DT.
Maybe this is the plan: We stick to the scheme and each year we keep adding players - IF this is the plan then you might be right that by year 5 when we have the money, we will get our players - that means another season like this one in year 4. Shanny seems to be alluding that this is what is happening. |
Losing 18m killed our chances to get quality players in the defensive backfield. Carlos Rogers was never going to stay. I still am really pissed that we didn't resign Ryan Clark years ago because we still haven't found anyone as good as him and as cheap as he's been paid either. |
There really weren't any safties out there except Branch at Oakland and he resigned with them. Don't think think the cap made a difference with the secondary. The Free Agent corner market was thin as well. Grimes and Finnegan were tops after Carr signed with the Cowboys (for way too much money).
The problem with fitting players to a system is it takes a lot of time because you have to find the players with the right skill set for the right price. We could have had Jonathan Joseph for 2011, but we opted for Wilson while Wade Phillips got Joseph. We saved money and got more players at other positions, but we passed on a top corner which are hard to come by.
If you want instant success, you tailor you scheme to fit the players. I am not saying that Shanny doesn't want instant succes. I am saying that, on defense, his priority is fitting players to a scheme that he is committed to no matter what. On offense, he did the opposite and fit the scheme to THE PLAYER. |
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tribeofjudah
tribe
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 5998
Location: SURF CITY, HB, CALI *** Occasionally flying into a SUPERNOVA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:26 am Post subject: Re: I'm KINDA mad....!!! |
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| Kilmer72 wrote: | | tribeofjudah wrote: | Kinda pi$$ed......let me count the ways:
1. that we freakin dropped over 10 balls (guys better grow some coconuts)
2. that Frenchy Pierre Garcon has not be a factor (heal up dude...come on)
3. that our pathetic D with the pathetic D coord....sux to high heaven
THE Steelers.....ARE WHO THE THOUGHT THEY WERE...!!! |
The drops did suck.
Garcon is a freak accident this year. Give it more time.
Besides our run defense it has been pathetic.
Don't worry about losing to the Steelers. If it came down to a tie breaker they aren't a factor really but I understand how you feel. |
I'm still pi$$ed........
WR are supposed to CATCH THE BALL...........freakin morons |
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Warmother
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Joined: 08 Jan 2004
Posts: 1419
Location: Finksburg MD
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:16 am Post subject: |
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Yesterday was a disappointment. It looked like a lot of guys had no interest in playing.
I am still optimistic about the season though. In years past we have started well only to crash later. I think this year will be the opposite. I think RG3 and the boys will get better as the year goes on. We may not make the playoffs but they will learn how to win, and then next year watch out. |
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grampi
Hog
Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 1504
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:31 am Post subject: |
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| masterkwon wrote: | | Relax everyone...this was not a game they were suppose to win. Please remember, unlike the previous twenty years they're averaging more than 8 points a game, they're competitive and the Cowboys and Eagles aren't very good so the season is not over like it usually is at this time. Three wins already has exceeded everyone's expectations. So far so good! |
There are games the Redskins are supposed to lose? Then why do they even bother playing those games and risk getting key players hurt? Maybe they should just forfeit the games they're supposed to lose and move on...  |
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Red_One43
Hog
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 4606
Location: D.C.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:04 am Post subject: |
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| Warmother wrote: | Yesterday was a disappointment. It looked like a lot of guys had no interest in playing.
I am still optimistic about the season though. In years past we have started well only to crash later. I think this year will be the opposite. I think RG3 and the boys will get better as the year goes on. We may not make the playoffs but they will learn how to win, and then next year watch out. |
Question: If in years past we started to crash later, what do you make of the 0-23 lackluster perfomance against Buffalo last year right at this time, on October 30th?
Yesterday may have been the worst, but the Shanahan Redskins have had a history of lackluster performances throughtout the season. |
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chiefhog44
**ch44
Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 2300
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| Went to the game yesterday and wow, was that a disappointment. What an egg we laid. Our defense was so bad. Our WRs were not even playing. Seems as though we are really going to miss Davis. Not sure if this game was a throwaway, but, we'll definitely see the "character" Shanny boasts of come next Sunday, where it's shaping up to be a must win game. |
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SkinsJock
08 Champ
Joined: 24 Feb 2004
Posts: 11531
Location: New England
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:32 am Post subject: |
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OK - I'm really not as mad about losing as I am at the way we played ...
I understand that the big picture is we still have a lot of issues and we've had some setbacks but ...
that was a very disappointing effort on the part of both players and coaches
I'm not going to advocate for anything just because of this one game but
the OC and DC might not be the only ones that will be looking for jobs if the product on the field does not get a lot better over the next 8 games
Mike the HC has got to do a better job 'managing' the coaches and players
we all know that what we saw yesterday was not caused by the Steelers but by ourselves
I'm not saying we could (or should) have won - we are a lot better than what we saw |
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Red_One43
Hog
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 4606
Location: D.C.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:36 am Post subject: |
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From the gameday thread:
I went ahead and became an ESPN Insider so I could read this article.
Kyle should have read it too.
| Quote: | Upset Watch: Washington (+4.5) at Pittsburgh
Football Outsiders has always been an advocate of the modern offense: lots of shotgun and lots of passing. But our advice for Washington on Sunday is different. To beat Pittsburgh, the Redskins want to go old school and run, run, run.
Washington's strategy starts with understanding the Pittsburgh defense. Most fans know at this point that the Steelers haven't met their usual defensive standards this season because of age and injuries. But the defense has been better since James Harrison returned to the field. Right now, the Steelers rank 22nd in Football Outsiders' defensive DVOA ratings. Things would be a lot different if we split the season into their first three games (without Harrison) and their last three games (with Harrison). In the first three games, they had a defensive DVOA of 21.0 percent, which would rank 30th on the season. In the past three games, they have a defensive DVOA of minus-6.2 percent, which would rank 12th.
However, nearly all the improvement has come in pass defense. Run defense hasn't really improved much with Harrison's return. That seems to be related to the other big name on the Pittsburgh injury report, Troy Polamalu. Over the past five years, the Steelers have allowed roughly a touchdown more per game when Polamalu was not healthy. The Steelers have done a better job than usual withstanding the loss of Polamalu this season, but not when it comes to stopping the run. They allowed 3.7 yards per carry in the two games Polamalu played, compared with 4.6 yards per carry in the four games he has missed. This matches previous numbers -- for example, the last time Polamalu missed most of the season, in 2009, the Steelers allowed 3.4 yards per carry when he was healthy and 4.3 yards per carry without him.
Washington's running should start with first downs, where the Redskins' running game ranks second in DVOA and fourth in yards per carry with 5.36. Pittsburgh's defense, on the other hand, has been very weak against first-down runs, 30th in DVOA and 28th allowing 5.20 yards per carry. |
Problem here is Kyle started running wide to Harrisons side on the first two running plays after the opening end around. He continued to run Mmorris wide to Harrisons side for losses and no gains until the third quarter when Morris got over 10 yards on that carry. Those repeated carries to Harrison's side made no sense. I kept thinking that they were trying to set something up, but when you need to score on every series, you can't afford to set something up for later. I never did see what, if anything, they were trying to set up - it just looked like more suspect Kyle play calling. |
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llcc25
newbie
Joined: 29 Oct 2012
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:37 am Post subject: Wasted 4th round pick... |
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| Its clear that we could've used that 4th round pick to shore up some of our glaring weaknesses on D. Why Shanahan, why did you draft someone who is riding our bench when we had so many other holes to fill??? Its clear RGIII needs more help...this move is an indictment on Shanahan's GM capabilities... |
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DarthMonk
DarthMonk
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 3238
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:39 am Post subject: |
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Irn-Bru wrote:
Football Outsiders is saying the Redskins have a great chance at upsetting the Steelers this Sunday (ever week they pick an underdog whose chances they like).
I can't read the whole thing, because I don't have ESPN Insider, but the full article is here:
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8549682/nfl-week-8-upset-watch-washington-redskins-best-pittsburgh-steelers
I went ahead and became an ESPN Insider so I could read this article.
Kyle should have read it too.
Quote:
Upset Watch: Washington (+4.5) at Pittsburgh
Football Outsiders has always been an advocate of the modern offense: lots of shotgun and lots of passing. But our advice for Washington on Sunday is different. To beat Pittsburgh, the Redskins want to go old school and run, run, run.
Washington's strategy starts with understanding the Pittsburgh defense. Most fans know at this point that the Steelers haven't met their usual defensive standards this season because of age and injuries. But the defense has been better since James Harrison returned to the field. Right now, the Steelers rank 22nd in Football Outsiders' defensive DVOA ratings. Things would be a lot different if we split the season into their first three games (without Harrison) and their last three games (with Harrison). In the first three games, they had a defensive DVOA of 21.0 percent, which would rank 30th on the season. In the past three games, they have a defensive DVOA of minus-6.2 percent, which would rank 12th.
However, nearly all the improvement has come in pass defense. Run defense hasn't really improved much with Harrison's return. That seems to be related to the other big name on the Pittsburgh injury report, Troy Polamalu. Over the past five years, the Steelers have allowed roughly a touchdown more per game when Polamalu was not healthy. The Steelers have done a better job than usual withstanding the loss of Polamalu this season, but not when it comes to stopping the run. They allowed 3.7 yards per carry in the two games Polamalu played, compared with 4.6 yards per carry in the four games he has missed. This matches previous numbers -- for example, the last time Polamalu missed most of the season, in 2009, the Steelers allowed 3.4 yards per carry when he was healthy and 4.3 yards per carry without him.
Washington's running should start with first downs, where the Redskins' running game ranks second in DVOA and fourth in yards per carry with 5.36. Pittsburgh's defense, on the other hand, has been very weak against first-down runs, 30th in DVOA and 28th allowing 5.20 yards per carry.
Problem here is Kyle started running wide to Harrisons side on the first two running plays after the opening end around. He continued to run Mmorris wide to Harrisons side for losses and no gains until the third quarter when Morris got over 10 yards on that carry. Those repeated carries to Harrison's side made no sense. I kept thinking that they were trying to set something up, but when you need to score on every series, you can't afford to set something up for later. I never did see what, if anything, they were trying to set up - it just looked like more suspect Kyle play calling.
Spot on, Red. Spot on.
DarthMonk |
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crazyhorse1
ch1
Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 3558
Location: virginia beach
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:52 am Post subject: Re: I'm KINDA mad....!!! |
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| tribeofjudah wrote: | Kinda pi$$ed......let me count the ways:
1. that we freakin dropped over 10 balls (guys better grow some coconuts)
2. that Frenchy Pierre Garcon has not been a factor (heal up dude...come on)
3. that our pathetic D with the pathetic D coord....sux to high heaven
THE Steelers.....ARE WHO THE THOUGHT THEY WERE...!!! |
We flat-out dropped eleven passes and Hankerson let one whizz by his head without seeming to notice he was being passed to. I'm really ticked that the Defense can't rush or pass defend at all, but what really has me enraged this morning is that RG 111 probably lost his lead among NFL quarterbacks in pass completion percentage. Without the dropped balls, he would have extended his lead, not lost it. Because of his teammates total (and I mean "total") ineptitude his QB rating for the game was 75, which will play havoc with his former 101.
I have never, ever, seen a QB or a team so let down by receivers. By the way, Moss has two crucial drops in two games...and he's the best we've put on the field (or maybe Paulson is.) What a mistake it was to cut our top receiver from last year. What an incredible mistake it was to switch to the 3-4. I thought so when we did it, and think so now. |
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