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Postby ACW » Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:05 am

And someone please explain to me the PI before Cam rushed it in. Not catchable.
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Postby SkinsJock » Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:31 am

ACW wrote:And someone please explain to me the PI before Cam rushed it in. Not catchable.


there are good calls and bad calls - do you really think that this stupid call made any difference whatsoever?
one should always try to look on the bright side ... especially Redskins fans after the past 20 plus years

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Postby Redskin in Canada » Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:40 am

Irn-Bru wrote:If I'm Shanahan, I call Banks into my office this morning, thank him for everything he's done the past three years, cut him, and give Terrence Austin a call.

Trying to explain why he keeps Banks will be the LEAST of Mike Shanahan's concerns after the media requests a few clarifications and poses some interesting questions about his recent statements. :twisted:

MUST WIN?

Time to evaluate players?

The election is tomorrow and Mike made a concession speech on Sunday. It will be an interesting press conference today Monday indeed. Let's see how good is Mike as a SPIN DOCTOR. It is Washington DC after all. :roll:
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Postby markshark84 » Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:44 am

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I typically blame players for not executing the plays given, however, Kyles redzone offense has been an issue. Our highly rated passer isn't being allowed to throw the ball.

The other issue is that, Alfred Morris is being taken off the field for Evan Royster... Royster sucks. Helu sucks. You don't take your best players off the field when you get into the most important area of the field. And quite frankly, Roysters blocking isn't good enough to warrant his appearances.

The season isn't over, but it's time to make some gut checks.


Totally agree about Royster. Been saying this since week 1. Morris needs to be our everydown back. Royster can get in there on OBVIOUS throwing situations -- otherwise Morris should be in there.

The only reason I can think of for why Royster is playing is that Morris tends to run out of gas after about 15-18 carries -- but yesterday he should have been playing when the game was on the line.

If it were up to me, I would consider having Morris in on all downs and Williams on passing plays. I never liked him back in 2010, but he may be better suited over Royster.
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Postby oneman56 » Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:48 am

markshark84 wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:I typically blame players for not executing the plays given, however, Kyles redzone offense has been an issue. Our highly rated passer isn't being allowed to throw the ball.

The other issue is that, Alfred Morris is being taken off the field for Evan Royster... Royster sucks. Helu sucks. You don't take your best players off the field when you get into the most important area of the field. And quite frankly, Roysters blocking isn't good enough to warrant his appearances.

The season isn't over, but it's time to make some gut checks.


Totally agree about Royster. Been saying this since week 1. Morris needs to be our everydown back. Royster can get in there on OBVIOUS throwing situations -- otherwise Morris should be in there.

The only reason I can think of for why Royster is playing is that Morris tends to run out of gas after about 15-18 carries -- but yesterday he should have been playing when the game was on the line.

If it were up to me, I would consider having Morris in on all downs and Williams on passing plays. I never liked him back in 2010, but he may be better suited over Royster.



Also agreed about Royster, his pass blocking is terrible and he's a complete reliability in pass-pro. I do, however, wish Helu was healthy because I think we could use a guy who can take a screen play and make something out of it. Royster cannot and Morris isn't greatly suited for it either.

As far as RGIII not being allowed to throw the ball, I'd really like to know what's up with this. I've seen the same thing and this offense is turning into dink and dunk or play action down the seam ONLY. They need to let this kid throw the ball, especially in the RZ. I haven't seen any fade routes or attempts to get the TE the ball around the goal line and instead see sweep right/left or trickery with option crap when there's little room for it.

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Postby CanesSkins26 » Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:49 am

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Three things...


1. The whistle call was an important part of the game. It was a momentum changer in a game where momentum is everything.


2. The loss of Orakpo and Carriker were bigger than we could have imagined. Those guys change the way our "lesser" players are defended. With Orakpo in the game, Bowen may only get 1 person on him, which he can easily beat. Without Orakpo, he gets doubled and isn't talent enough to consistenly beat it. Hopefully Rak can stay healthy moving forward.

U can look up north to Baltimore for the same results. Their defense wasn't the same without T Sizzle. Then with Ray out and their best DB, their defense completely collasped. That mantra of "next man up" is BS IMO. There are limits to depth.


3. Fans demanding a coaching change... <snore>. If anyone is going to go, it will prolly be Haz. But I doubt it. He's playing without the players he was "promised" at saftey. No upgrades at CB. -1 probowl OLB. And without one of his better DE's. That's a heck of an issue to overcome.


Every team suffers injuries. We lost 2 average/above average players in the front 7, not an elite player like Suggs. Besides, Kerrigan is a first round pick, he should be performing at a much higher level.
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Postby oneman56 » Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:56 am

RayNAustin wrote:??? Seems like a bad call ... let's hope he knows what he's doing ???

He doesn't have a freaking clue what he's doing, and the 14-27 record in 2 1/2 seasons is our clue to this fact. And if the rose colored glasses are obscuring one's view of reality, let's just take a time-out and reflect on the situation in it's entirety, beginning with the unacceptable first, and work our way down the list, shall we?

1) It's unacceptable, and frankly disgusting to hear our head coach actually throw in the towel and concede the season in game 9, especially when 5 of our next 7 games are division games, and we are not mathematically eliminated from anything yet. It's fine for the cynical football analysts and disgruntled fans to be harshly critical and face the reality that unless there is a magical turn around in performance, or one or two of the next 7 opponents allows our current embarrassing ineptitude to lull them to sleep, we may not win another game this year. But there is nothing acceptable about that defeatist attitude coming from the players or the coaches who have the obligation to try to turn things around, and absolutely unacceptable coming from the head coach. That alone is grounds for the dismissal of this incompetent loser, who apparently doesn't even grasp that basic concept of leadership. I find it appalling ... and so should anyone else claiming to be a Redskin fan ... I can only imagine how hard it is for players to fight through this, while the coach is "taking a powder". And this confirms my long standing claim that Shanahan is a lousy coach. Even marginal coaches would NEVER behave this way, let alone a good one.

2) During this "concession" press conference, Shanahan made reference to the coming games as an evaluation period to see who would remain Redskins for the years to come. The underlying message is ... it's the players fault, not mine. Well guess what, Mike .... you picked the players, and you picked the coaching staff, and you have had total control of who those current Redskin players are today, and it was your responsibility to coach them up. The blame starts right there with you Mike ...you are 100% responsible ... but losers never take responsibility and always want to blame others for their own failures. This is UNACCEPTABLE from a leader. Can anyone imagine, in their wildest dreams, Joe Gibbs acting like this? Even the embattled, rookie HC Jim Zorn maintained unwavering optimism, and never pointed fingers.


3) When declaring game 9 to be a "must win", and your upcoming opponent must face you on your home field, in front of your fans, and they have a record of 1-6, and have managed to find every way imaginable to lose their last 5 straight games, you should be able to help them find a way to make it 6 straight. And it is UNACCEPTABLE to take that opportunity to get a "must win", and instead, put up your worst performance of the year so far, and find a way to lose. This demonstrates a fundamental failure in preparation and attitude and game planning and leadership.

4) Of the many Redskin head coaches over the past 50 years (those who coached at least 2 seasons) there is only one coach with a worse win-loss record than Mike Shanahan .... and you have to go all the way back to 1961-1965 to find him .... Bill McPeak who had a 21-46 record back when I attended my first Redskin game at the age of 5. Since then, no one else's record is worse than Shanahan ..... not Steve Spurrier, not Norv Turner, not Jim Zorn .... N O B O D Y. That is UNACCEPTABLE

5) the bad - we've seen this coach come in the first year and rebuild a defense that didn't need rebuilding, while pretty much ignoring the offense which desperately needed that help. In the second year, he continued to rebuild that defense, and the offense, with our offensive hopes placed in a an obscure QB by the name of John Beck, whom Shanahan "staked his reputation" on, who turned out to be an unmitigated disaster. And finally, in year three, with the final tweaks to this totally rebuilt defense, we now have perhaps the worst Redskin defense in the era of non-leather football helmets, and instead of getting better ... year to year, and week to week, we've gotten worse.

6) Each year under Shanahan, there have been major personnel changes which have resulted in an entirely new roster of players, on both sides of the ball, and there has been a lot of hit and miss in those changes, to include 4 QBs .. several running backs .. several new receivers .... all new secondary with only two pre-shanahan players left, with many many errors .... McNabb was a bust, Grossman and Beck were Busts ...and we still have receivers that can't get open, and when they manage to, they can't catch ... we have a secondary that can't cover anyone, and a d-line that can't rush the passer and an o-line that can't block the pass rush. And this was the roster Shanahan entered 2012 with claiming to be a much improved roster that he was very happy with, and confident he could win with. But if you take RG3 out of that mix ... the Redskins would likely be 0-9 right now, and looking at being the ugly twin sister to the 0-16 Detroit Lions of a couple years back. This is bad.

7) As much as I agree with the move to get RG3 ... we must take into account that over the past three years, with a full complement of draft picks at his disposal, Shanahan has managed to make no real tangible improvement from a winning perspective ... and aside RG3 and a couple of surprises like Alfred Morris, the personnel choices have been quite mediocre to poor ... with the exception of the high picks like Kerrigan, which one expects to be successful. So, with that in mind ... and knowing that for the next two years, we don't have those #1 picks ... how are we to expect that Shanahan will do better, with less? Couple that with another year of severe cap hit (due to the shenanigans in the front office during the uncapped year first year here) which will prevent us from patching all of this mess with free agents ... I see no light at the end of this tunnel, except the locomotive coming straight at us.

In the final analysis, teams and coaches can experience challenges, and no one can control injuries. Bad luck happens sometimes, and these circumstances must be considered when evaluating the performance of teams and coaches. But three years of declining performance is what it is. And the addition of two remarkable rookies like RG3 and Morris cannot make up for the many failures ... hell, Morris was a lucky find .. else they would have drafted him much sooner than round 6 ... and anyone can trade a wheel barrel full of draft picks for a star prospect like RG3 .. it doesn't take a football genius to do that.

But there is one sacred rule ... one all important principle that can never be allowed to be broken by anyone, player or coach ... and that is the cancer of "quitting" and "accepting defeat". This type of attitude is pure poison ... and no matter the source .. from a player to a secretary, it cannot be tolerated, under any circumstances.

In RG3's post game presser today, he pretty much said that he's coming back after the buy week, and fully plans and expects to win ... and those that don't feel that way should not bother to come back. That's how winners think, and that is the only attitude that should exist in the locker room, on the field, or in the coaches offices.

Snyder should embrace the leadership this young man named RG3 demonstrates, and follow that lead by doing his duty ... and eliminate this poisonous cancer coming from it's head coach ... immediately, with the extra week off to find an interim HC to finish out the year.

The Redskins organization does not need this creep ... RG3 doesn't need his attitude ... and the team will be better off when the lot of this incompetent staff of losers is gone.

If you had a player poisoning the locker room, you'd cut him ... you wouldn't wait till the end of the year. And there is not one good reason to wait to take action with a coach doing the same thing. And after this clear demonstration of it in front of the press ... and NFL headlines reading "Redskins throwing in the towel?" Shanahan must be fired. It's inconceivable for anyone to try to rationalize his unacceptable behavior and attitude. There is simply no excuse for it .. it cannot be tolerated ... and a clear message must be sent .... losers need not apply, and will not be welcome at Redskin park.



It's like watching the end of his era here in Denver all over again. Many of your points are what led to his dismissal here and to the fans turning on him. Constant player turn-over, constant D-coordinator turn-over and NEVER taking accountability for the failures. I, as recently as this past week, have professed my desire for some stability here but like you, after hearing him quit on the season I'm now unsure of how I feel. I never really wanted him hired to begin with but thought he was a better coach than we had had and would at least get us heading in the right direction (.500 would've been my guess) but that is not happening. I'm really torn this morning on the coaching staff, this loss bothers me more than any I can recently remember...I love the Redskins but man it's getting hard to stay positive and see a reason to keep Shanny here. Losing yesterdays game to a 1-6 team on your home field is just horrendous and then stating the season is lost is well....beyond my comprehension.

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Postby langleyparkjoe » Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:02 pm

The Hogster wrote:
langleyparkjoe wrote:blaaaaahhhhh

but i agree wit cll

and it was pretty exciting to see rg3 and our offense score at end of the game though.

but blaaaaah becuz we lost to some bumz

did n e see santana's head hit dude's shoulder? my man moss was OUT! glad he was aite do'h

go skins, hopefully we won't lose this week to the bye but i'm sure we won't


Not so fast. The Bye Week just scored on an 80 yard pass.


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Postby oneman56 » Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:07 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:Three things...


1. The whistle call was an important part of the game. It was a momentum changer in a game where momentum is everything.


2. The loss of Orakpo and Carriker were bigger than we could have imagined. Those guys change the way our "lesser" players are defended. With Orakpo in the game, Bowen may only get 1 person on him, which he can easily beat. Without Orakpo, he gets doubled and isn't talent enough to consistenly beat it. Hopefully Rak can stay healthy moving forward.

U can look up north to Baltimore for the same results. Their defense wasn't the same without T Sizzle. Then with Ray out and their best DB, their defense completely collasped. That mantra of "next man up" is BS IMO. There are limits to depth.


3. Fans demanding a coaching change... <snore>. If anyone is going to go, it will prolly be Haz. But I doubt it. He's playing without the players he was "promised" at saftey. No upgrades at CB. -1 probowl OLB. And without one of his better DE's. That's a heck of an issue to overcome.


Every team suffers injuries. We lost 2 average/above average players in the front 7, not an elite player like Suggs. Besides, Kerrigan is a first round pick, he should be performing at a much higher level.


It doesn't matter if he's elite like Suggs or not, his importance to THIS TEAM is being magnified. Like I said in another thread, Kerrigan is a stud but until he proves he's a double digit sack guy, especially w/o Orakpo opposite him then he's just a really good LB. We miss Orakpo immensely and Carriker too IMO. The effect of losing is tearing this D apart. The point is, you take 3 top starters from any teams Defense and that FO and coaching staff will struggle to replace them.

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Postby Chris Luva Luva » Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:08 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:Every team suffers injuries. We lost 2 average/above average players in the front 7, not an elite player like Suggs. Besides, Kerrigan is a first round pick, he should be performing at a much higher level.


Skins fans are overly harsh on Orakpo... While his "eliteness" is arguable. He's a top pass rusher in this league, and his absence has shown us as much. He's a probowl talent, regardless if his own fanbase doubts him. The kid changes how the rest of his teamates are defended. He puts "lesser" players in matchups that they can win. It's very simple. Everyone (myself included) got down on him and thought that Kerrigan had somehow eclipsed him and was a WOnder Kid. Kerrigan is awesome but he was producing because of a consistent Carriker and Orakpo who demands more attention than anyone else on this defense.

Kerrigan can only be as good as the people around him. This isn't magic. If you want a prime example look at our offensive line.

Last year, this off-season, this preseason check the posts on this very forum. The complaining, they crying, the hatred about our offensive line. The tirades about the draft and picking Kirk over an offensive linemen... But then RGIII changed all that. One player can effect how everyone else is defended against. This is the same mediocre line from before, but they're defended differently because of RGIII and his ability.

Ray Lewis is another example. The media said he was washed up around 2004 or 2005. This was after the Ravens lost Fat Tony and the other meaty bodies upfront. The replacements couldn't keep Lewis clean and allow him to run downhill. Then the Ravens go and get Ngata and some other fatties to keep the bodies off of the linebackers.


This isn't an individual sport. And thinking that Kerrigan was going to keep the same level of play or improve, sans a PROBOWL OLD lining up opposite of him is not anyones fault but your own. Not having Carriker upfront to demand more attention than Jarvis Jenkins is normal.
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Postby gushogs » Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:10 pm

I have hated Snyders coaching carrousel from the recent past, but if he fires Shannahan before his 5 pm press conference, I'll be thrilled. A young QB with losts of promise doesn´t need a quitter making calls.
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Postby Deadskins » Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:18 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:quite frankly, Roysters blocking isn't good enough to warrant his appearances.

I agree with you there, but Royster definitely doesn't suck as a RB.
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Postby Chris Luva Luva » Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:19 pm

gushogs wrote:I have hated Snyders coaching carrousel from the recent past, but if he fires Shannahan before his 5 pm press conference, I'll be thrilled. A young QB with losts of promise doesn´t need a quitter making calls.
HaiL,


- So you hate the coach changes?

- YET!!! You want to change coaches and set RGIII's development back at the most crucial time. LOL

- But it's ok because you're "ok" with it. Until 2-3 years later when the next coach gets the yanked and we've effectively ruined another QB... And then you'll be crying about Snyder not being patient enough.

LOL "fans".


Deadskins wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:quite frankly, Roysters blocking isn't good enough to warrant his appearances.

I agree with you there, but Royster definitely doesn't suck as a RB.


Last year? He was good. This year, he's sucked. Granted, he doesn't get to develop a rhythm but for how they use him, he's ineffective. And at the goal line, you don't put him in. You put you BEST players on the field. And that wouldn't be Royster. That'd be a man by the name of Alfred.
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Postby Deadskins » Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:29 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
gushogs wrote:I have hated Snyders coaching carrousel from the recent past, but if he fires Shannahan before his 5 pm press conference, I'll be thrilled. A young QB with losts of promise doesn´t need a quitter making calls.
HaiL,


- So you hate the coach changes?

- YET!!! You want to change coaches and set RGIII's development back at the most crucial time. LOL

- But it's ok because you're "ok" with it. Until 2-3 years later when the next coach gets the yanked and we've effectively ruined another QB... And then you'll be crying about Snyder not being patient enough.

LOL "fans".


Deadskins wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:quite frankly, Roysters blocking isn't good enough to warrant his appearances.

I agree with you there, but Royster definitely doesn't suck as a RB.


Last year? He was good. This year, he's sucked. Granted, he doesn't get to develop a rhythm but for how they use him, he's ineffective. And at the goal line, you don't put him in. You put you BEST players on the field. And that wouldn't be Royster. That'd be a man by the name of Alfred.

He's only had about four or five carries (mostly been used as a receiver out of the backfield) this year, so I don't know how you could say he's sucked. And I think he was in as much as he was yesterday, because Alfred was hurting.
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Postby Chris Luva Luva » Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:32 pm

Deadskins wrote:He's only had about four or five carries (mostly been used as a receiver out of the backfield) this year, so I don't know how you could say he's sucked. And I think he was in as much as he was yesterday, because Alfred was hurting.


Well, I did state in my previous post that for the role he's in, he's sucked. Is he a good RB? He showed that he was decent last year. He was effective, yes. But as a 3rd down option, he's been ineffective. The screen passes, forgettable. The blocking, passable, at best.

We def need another back behind Morris, IMO.
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