Washington Redskins Message Board
Visit the THN Website 
Washington Redskins Fan Forum spacer Washington Redskins Message Board
Home Login Register Rules FAQ Photo Galleries Fri May 24, 2013 4:34 pm
Welcome to the home of some of the Washington Redskins' most ravenous fans. If this is your first visit, please read our rules and regulations. You must register before you can access all of the forums, and to use all the board's features and options; members also enjoy fewer advertisements.
   TheHogs.net Forum Index » Hog Wash - Washington Redskins Football

 » Mann and Green: problem with D is Lack of Development

All times are GMT - 5 Hours 
Post new topic   Reply to topic Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next  
Author Message
die cowboys die
Hog


Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 2130
Location: Boston, MA

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am an experienced/advanced and skilled guitar player, though I lack the natural ability to move my fingers as quickly as some "shredders" out there. But in years of both receiving and teaching lessons, my understanding is that sound technique is sound technique regardless of the speed, and I am perfectly capable of teaching it even if I can't "shred" a billion notes per second myself.

Morris may not have the athletic ability to actually play DB in the NFL, but as a secondary coach he sure ought to be able to execute and demonstrate the *technique* involved, even if he is simply slower and/or weaker.
Back to top
rskin72
Hog


Joined: 11 Mar 2012
Posts: 283

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

die cowboys die wrote:
I am an experienced/advanced and skilled guitar player, though I lack the natural ability to move my fingers as quickly as some "shredders" out there. But in years of both receiving and teaching lessons, my understanding is that sound technique is sound technique regardless of the speed, and I am perfectly capable of teaching it even if I can't "shred" a billion notes per second myself.

Morris may not have the athletic ability to actually play DB in the NFL, but as a secondary coach he sure ought to be able to execute and demonstrate the *technique* involved, even if he is simply slower and/or weaker.


Certainly agree with this. To be a successful coach does not require you to have been a star player....indeed most of the time those two seem to be mutually exclusive. When I was an instructor in the Navy, the old slogan was "those that can't do, teach"....but it really has to do with the skill set that you bring to the table. I mean, what type of NFL career as a player did Joe Gibbs have?

The OP quotes from our former greats bring more focus to the coaching spotlight.....especially on defense. And, my concerns revolve more around how Haz implements our 3-4 defense and how he prepares our players. When you get burned on the first play of the game by a team's O coord who studied tape and knew your tendencies.....like the Bengals did.....that should raise warning flags about the predictability of our defense.

Bring on some of our former greats to teach coverage, teach pass rush.....that part certainly could not hurt....but seems like this is something that should have been considered in pre-season vice midway point in regular season.....
Back to top
Chris Luva Luva
---
---


Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 17809
Location: AJT

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaSkinz Baby wrote:
No way they bring anyone in. Think about it if Shanahan does this it would be too much like when Zorn had the Bingo player brought in............


No, it wouldn't. Clearly you aren't comprehending what's being proposed.
Back to top
SkinsJock
08 Champ
08 Champ


Joined: 24 Feb 2004
Posts: 11521
Location: New England

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
DaSkinz Baby wrote:
No way they bring anyone in. Think about it if Shanahan does this it would be too much like when Zorn had the Bingo player brought in............


No, it wouldn't. Clearly you aren't comprehending what's being proposed.


Shocked thanks for pointing out the obvious CLL Laughing


hopefully someone uses these few days to analyze what Green and Mann are pointing to - there are some serious mistakes happening and IMO many of them are basically due to poor technique
Back to top
Redskin in Canada
~~~~~~
~~~~~~


Joined: 08 Apr 2004
Posts: 10278
Location: Canada

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ohhhh!

The ability and willingness to try to look inside critically at one's self and determine whether I reach alone, around, outside, or all of the above to seek the assistance I need to become a better professional and person ...

... pretty profound.

Ego gets in the way, Chris. Many egos get in the way of that vision. Our own, the ego of the ones around us, lack of humility, or just plain immaturity regardless of age.
Back to top
Link
522682_Modells.com! Your Online Store for Licensed Apparel!  Click Here!
SkinsJock
08 Champ
08 Champ


Joined: 24 Feb 2004
Posts: 11521
Location: New England

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^ what he said Shocked

we do have many issues and it's not all due to guys named Jim, Kyle or Mike


HCs tend to be very difficult and very inflexible - that's their nature
Back to top
DarthMonk
DarthMonk
DarthMonk


Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 3207

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel good about seeing this on the field and in my brain before reading it. Enough of that.

I don't know if this is true but I'm gonna say the last head coach we had who was really into this concept personally was Marty. I think Gibbs was a schemer but had assistants who did this. I think Joe Bugel was big on this as a line coach.

The players, as a group, are more athletic than ever but less skilled. Lombardi is rolling over in his grave. Welch, maybe the old Packers WOULD kick our ass in spite of being out athleted almost everywhere. I know their secondary would cover us better than we'd cover them.

BTW - does Morris remind anyone else of Larry Brown?

DarthMonk
Back to top
Redskin in Canada
~~~~~~
~~~~~~


Joined: 08 Apr 2004
Posts: 10278
Location: Canada

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DarthMonk wrote:
BTW - does Morris remind anyone else of Larry Brown?

I thought about it BUT ...

... their runs are very different. Morris' one cut and run is Shanny's style. Allen's run scheme was different.

However, there are several points of analogy too. The tenacity and commitment are comparable. They also come from two unlikely backgrounds. Their physical commitment to the run is similar too.

It is too early to tell, I feel. Larry was a warrior and had a much better and experienced, run-first, over-the-hill OL. But at this time is too early to tell because I saw runs made by Larry that I have not seen Morris do. It is only his first season. Interesting to watch though. Good observation. Idea
Back to top
SkinsJock
08 Champ
08 Champ


Joined: 24 Feb 2004
Posts: 11521
Location: New England

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that Mann & Green's comment are well intended but I agree with RiC - there is no way today's coaches take advice or constructive criticism very well - also today's coaches it seems to me are more about defensive and offensive schemes than 'coaching techniques'

at this level these guys all expect the players to have all the basics down - that is why we see so many players not doing the basics like tackling and preparing like the players of the last era did


whatever it is these 2 (Kyle & Jim Haslett) need to be a lot more hands on with their players and design and practice according to what the players can do NOT what they (Jim & Kyle) want them to do - admittedly this also needs to be adjusted to fit into what the offense or defense we are facing does as well
Back to top
chiefhog44
**ch44
**ch44


Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 2300
Location: Chicago

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although I absolutely agree with these guys, the simple fact is that the NFL is no longer a teaching ground. With the limits they place on things like padded practices, OTA days, offseason practices etc, these coaches don't have a whole lot of time to teach fundamentals. In addition, there are limits to how many players are on rosters no adays, meaning you can't let a guy learn by watching or practicing for 3 years without being exposed. On top of that, the game has advanced so much in the last 20 years that colleges serve as those places to learn fundamentals. Coaches expect you to know how to tackle, they expect you to know how to rush or cover.

Now I'm not saying that no teaching goes down while on the team, but its on the fly and they aren't able to practice those skills with the reps like they were back in the day. The burden of learning falls much more in the lap of the player now more than ever. Take Orakpo. He spent the offseason with Derek Brooks from the Chiefs to learn how to cover as a LB, and learn how to split double teams. HE has to do that in the offseason and the team is not allowed to provide coaching to help him. Those are the rules.
Back to top
Link
233437_For Serious Players
Kilmer72
Hog


Joined: 07 Oct 2008
Posts: 1260
Location: Midland, VA

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DarthMonk wrote:


BTW - does Morris remind anyone else of Larry Brown?

DarthMonk


Yes!!!! Helu and Royster just weren't durable enough and I was longing for someone that was. I like both Helu and Royster. I just do not think we can pound them all year. If Young wasn't our blocking back I would run him much more.
Back to top
SkinsJock
08 Champ
08 Champ


Joined: 24 Feb 2004
Posts: 11521
Location: New England

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kilmer72 wrote:
DarthMonk wrote:


BTW - does Morris remind anyone else of Larry Brown?

DarthMonk


Yes!!!! Helu and Royster just weren't durable enough and I was longing for someone that was. I like both Helu and Royster. I just do not think we can pound them all year. If Young wasn't our blocking back I would run him much more.


and this is what Mann and Green were referring to?

please help me here ... Twisted Evil
Back to top
Kilmer72
Hog


Joined: 07 Oct 2008
Posts: 1260
Location: Midland, VA

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well someone said something and then I did. Sorry SJ
Back to top
Deadskins
JSPB22
JSPB22


Joined: 02 Jul 2004
Posts: 14722
Location: Location, LOCATION!

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chiefhog44 wrote:
In addition, there are limits to how many players are on rosters no adays, meaning you can't let a guy learn by watching or practicing for 3 years without being exposed. On top of that, the game has advanced so much in the last 20 years that colleges serve as those places to learn fundamentals. Coaches expect you to know how to tackle, they expect you to know how to rush or cover.

Um, the rosters are bigger now than they ever have been. And Green and Mann aren't talking about fundamentals, they're talking about techniques, things that take a player to the next level.
Back to top
chiefhog44
**ch44
**ch44


Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 2300
Location: Chicago

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deadskins wrote:
chiefhog44 wrote:
In addition, there are limits to how many players are on rosters no adays, meaning you can't let a guy learn by watching or practicing for 3 years without being exposed. On top of that, the game has advanced so much in the last 20 years that colleges serve as those places to learn fundamentals. Coaches expect you to know how to tackle, they expect you to know how to rush or cover.

Um, the rosters are bigger now than they ever have been. And Green and Mann aren't talking about fundamentals, they're talking about techniques, things that take a player to the next level.


I thought that NFL teams would stash a bunch of players on their team back in the day, no?

All I'm saying is the act of teqnique falls more and more in the lap of each player to learn because they don't have nearly the time to teach it now. I hear Pat Kirwin talk about it all the time, so, I do think it's an issue
Back to top
Link
522682_Modells.com! Your Online Store for Licensed Apparel!  Click Here!
Page 2 of 3All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Post new topic   Reply to topic Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next  



Home Login Register FAQ Search Photo Galleries Wireless Version
Copyright © 2000-2009 www.thehogs.net ( THN ). All Rights Reserved.Powered by php BB