Trade Cousins

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Postby KazooSkinsFan » Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:10 am

Deadskins wrote:The franchise couldn't care less about Cousins' interests unless they happen to coincide with their own. :roll:


Ridiculous post. You know nothing about business.

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Postby StorminMormon86 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:14 am

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
Deadskins wrote:The franchise couldn't care less about Cousins' interests unless they happen to coincide with their own. :roll:


Ridiculous post. You know nothing about business.

Successful management aligns the interest of their customers, their employees and themselves. None of the three succeed without the other two.

+1

If Cousins expressed a desire to stay with the Skins, there's no doubt the organization would try to make it happen.

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Postby Irn-Bru » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:13 am

I doubt he will desire it in the long-run, though. Cousins is a winner and winners want to take control on the field.
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Postby StorminMormon86 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:59 am

Irn-Bru wrote:I doubt he will desire it in the long-run, though. Cousins is a winner and winners want to take control on the field.

Don't get me wrong, there's no doubt in my mind if Cousins reads the writing on the wall (if Griffin remains in full health for the next two years, mind you) he'll want to go somewhere were he can start.

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Postby Deadskins » Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:16 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
Deadskins wrote:The franchise couldn't care less about Cousins' interests unless they happen to coincide with their own. :roll:


Ridiculous post. You know nothing about business.

Successful management aligns the interest of their customers, their employees and themselves. None of the three succeed without the other two.

So, in other words, you're saying their interests must coincide. :roll:

What's ridiculous is that you think that an NFL franchise is like a normal business. Right now there are about 40 employees whose interests are in making the team, but three weeks from now, the franchise will make a decision to cut those players, because it's in its own interests. So sorry, that's the way this business works.
Last edited by Deadskins on Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Deadskins » Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:20 pm

StorminMormon86 wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
Deadskins wrote:The franchise couldn't care less about Cousins' interests unless they happen to coincide with their own. :roll:


Ridiculous post. You know nothing about business.

Successful management aligns the interest of their customers, their employees and themselves. None of the three succeed without the other two.

+1

If Cousins expressed a desire to stay with the Skins, there's no doubt the organization would try to make it happen.

Then their interests would coincide. It's pretty simple. the franchise will do what's in it's own interests. If they got an offer of Herschel Walker proportions, are you saying they wouldn't pull the trigger because Cousins wants to stay? Get real. :roll:
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Postby KazooSkinsFan » Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:58 pm

Deadskins wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
Deadskins wrote:The franchise couldn't care less about Cousins' interests unless they happen to coincide with their own. :roll:


Ridiculous post. You know nothing about business.

Successful management aligns the interest of their customers, their employees and themselves. None of the three succeed without the other two.

+1

If Cousins expressed a desire to stay with the Skins, there's no doubt the organization would try to make it happen.

Then their interests would coincide. It's pretty simple. the franchise will do what's in it's own interests. If they got an offer of Herschel Walker proportions, are you saying they wouldn't pull the trigger because Cousins wants to stay? Get real. :roll:


The NFL is exactly like a normal business. You have to understand the dynamics of any business to succeed. Good business practices are agnostic. You're talking to a guy who spent half my career in GE rotating through businesses (GE Information Services, Nuclear, Power Systems, Capital and Consumer Finance) and the other half in management consulting in a plethora of industries before owning three businesses in three different industries. Managers who fail always start by saying business in their industry is "different." Industries have different dynamics, good business doesn't change. Understanding the dynamics of an industry is part of good business practices, not counter to them.

On the content, you completely didn't understand my point. You said they "don't care" about Cousins which is ridiculous, management does care about their employees. And you stated it as if they are passive, "happen to." Good business makes their incentives align, it doesn't just sit there and hope it happens. You can't turn a fry cook into an astronaut, but you better believe they are working with Cousins to make him happy in his role. It's active.

And you're wrong again about your cuts comment. It's not management's job to align their interests with the people who don't make it, it's their job to align their interests with the people who do. I started managing people six months out of college. In one of my earlier jobs, I had a guy I gave exactly three too many chances to after it was clear he couldn't do the job. I was afraid if I fired him, my good people would wonder if I was going to fire them. Finally I fired him. When I told the rest of my staff, they literally said they wondered why it took so long.

That was when I realized they were harmed by my inaction. They had to make up for him. They did it. They didn't tell me to fire him. But when I did, they were relieved. And we hired someone good to replace him and make their life better.

Suppose we didn't go through all the things we do to find the best team. How on earth would that be in the interest of the guys who we are building around. The business is football. The owners, fans and players all want to be good. And that is tied in with making money doing it. You have to actually understand the business and the real interests of people who are successful doing it. I never meant you need to make the people who can't cut it happy.

The NFL is business. That's a good thing. Despite what is popular for people trying to be elected to political offices peddling fear say in the US today and said in Europe in the 1930s. Understanding the specifics of a particular business and industry is basic, not counter to business.
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Postby StorminMormon86 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:09 pm

Deadskins wrote:If they got an offer of Herschel Walker proportions, are you saying they wouldn't pull the trigger because Cousins wants to stay? Get real. :roll:

You really think there's even a shred of a chance that this will happen?

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Postby KazooSkinsFan » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:24 pm

StorminMormon86 wrote:
Deadskins wrote:If they got an offer of Herschel Walker proportions, are you saying they wouldn't pull the trigger because Cousins wants to stay? Get real. :roll:

You really think there's even a shred of a chance that this will happen?


Hey, a running back who rushed for over 13,000 yards in his pro career versus a second year, fourth round quarterback who started one NFL game? And Cousins has played in four! Could happen. Deadskins is right, we should have accounted for the possibility we'd get three first round picks, a second, three more picks and some players for him. And he's right we'd take the trade. He's all over this, we're trying to catch up still.
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Proverb: Failure is not falling down. Failure is not getting up again

Twain: A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way

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Postby punchmunky » Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:34 pm

Not sure you want to trade your future....

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Postby riggofan » Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:55 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:The NFL is exactly like a normal business. You have to understand the dynamics of any business to succeed. Good business practices are agnostic. You're talking to a guy who spent half my career in GE rotating through businesses (GE Information Services, Nuclear, Power Systems, Capital and Consumer Finance) and the other half in management consulting in a plethora of industries before owning three businesses in three different industries.


The NFL is like a normal business??? That's weird. I won't be drafting any of my employees from colleges next April with precedence based on how my business fared last year. :)

Seriously I get your point about taking care of employees. But I still kind of agree with Deadskins that Cousins' best interests are not a high priority of the team. If the Skins receive two trade offers next year, say, a 3d round pick from Denver or a 2d round pick from Cleveland, they're not going to base their decision on what's in the best interests of Kirk Cousins.

The NFL is a business, but its also a game. With rules that don't have anything to do with other businesses like GE.

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Postby OldSchool » Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:07 pm

I don't see the Skins trading him until they have to and the better Cousins plays the more reluctant they will be to part with him. I don't know how high a ceiling Cousins really has in the NFL, it might be very high. He has not had enough opportunities to prove he has starter talent but he certainly has nurtured hopes he's good enough in his the brief playing time.

I also think the Redskins FO has to concerned about Griffins longevity after this second knee surgery so developing Cousins as a potential starter in addition to a back-up and trading chip makes sense. They have him under contract for 3 more years so I don't think they will consider a trade for 2 more seasons at a minimum. I wouldn't surprised if he ends up being Griffins successor if Griffin's career is cut short by injury.

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Postby Deadskins » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:13 am

riggofan wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:The NFL is exactly like a normal business. You have to understand the dynamics of any business to succeed. Good business practices are agnostic. You're talking to a guy who spent half my career in GE rotating through businesses (GE Information Services, Nuclear, Power Systems, Capital and Consumer Finance) and the other half in management consulting in a plethora of industries before owning three businesses in three different industries.


The NFL is like a normal business??? That's weird. I won't be drafting any of my employees from colleges next April with precedence based on how my business fared last year. :)

Seriously I get your point about taking care of employees. But I still kind of agree with Deadskins that Cousins' best interests are not a high priority of the team. If the Skins receive two trade offers next year, say, a 3d round pick from Denver or a 2d round pick from Cleveland, they're not going to base their decision on what's in the best interests of Kirk Cousins.

The NFL is a business, but its also a game. With rules that don't have anything to do with other businesses like GE.

Obviously, but Kazoo won't miss any opportunity to give you his resume and let you know he is a business management expert who understands how things work better than anyone else. Nevermind that he totally backed up my point with his example of not firing the incompetent team member (maybe he should have been the one fired lol). Hyperbole is lost on him, hence his literal reaction to my Herschel Walker example.
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Postby KazooSkinsFan » Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:25 am

Deadskins wrote:
riggofan wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:The NFL is exactly like a normal business. You have to understand the dynamics of any business to succeed. Good business practices are agnostic. You're talking to a guy who spent half my career in GE rotating through businesses (GE Information Services, Nuclear, Power Systems, Capital and Consumer Finance) and the other half in management consulting in a plethora of industries before owning three businesses in three different industries.


The NFL is like a normal business??? That's weird. I won't be drafting any of my employees from colleges next April with precedence based on how my business fared last year. :)

Seriously I get your point about taking care of employees. But I still kind of agree with Deadskins that Cousins' best interests are not a high priority of the team. If the Skins receive two trade offers next year, say, a 3d round pick from Denver or a 2d round pick from Cleveland, they're not going to base their decision on what's in the best interests of Kirk Cousins.

The NFL is a business, but its also a game. With rules that don't have anything to do with other businesses like GE.

Obviously, but Kazoo won't miss any opportunity to give you his resume and let you know he is a business management expert who understands how things work better than anyone else. Nevermind that he totally backed up my point with his example of not firing the incompetent team member (maybe he should have been the one fired lol). Hyperbole is lost on him, hence his literal reaction to my Herschel Walker example.


And this started because you never pass a chance for some liberal corporate bashing. I don't miss a chance to talk about my resume when it's pertinent to the discussion. I've worked in a lot of industries. But hey, you don't know what you're talking about, so deflection is the next strategy.

The Skins obviously do know what they are doing. Snyder hired the right people and are listening to them. Cousins has a good attitude, is saying the right things, and is listening to them. All the empirical data as well as the experience in the discussion says you are wrong. The Skins are doing exactly what I said and they are aligning their interests with his.

Sorry the facts don't fit your capitalism hating bias, but they never do, you should be used to it.
Groucho: Man does not control his own fate. The women in his life do that for him

Proverb: Failure is not falling down. Failure is not getting up again

Twain: A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way

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Postby KazooSkinsFan » Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:31 am

riggofan wrote:I still kind of agree with Deadskins that Cousins' best interests are not a high priority of the team. If the Skins receive two trade offers next year, say, a 3d round pick from Denver or a 2d round pick from Cleveland, they're not going to base their decision on what's in the best interests of Kirk Cousins.


How is that agreeing with deadskins? Nothing you said contradicts my argument at all in any way.

We spend two more years developing a 4th round pick with so so physical skills but who's had a good head on his shoulders so far. Then we trade him so we gets picks and he gets a chance to start.

That's win-win for him and us. The coaches are talking him up, getting him to focus on developing his skills and being ready when needed and providing him with a stage (pre-season, mop up, subbing if needed) to hone his skills and show other teams what he has.

We are actively aligning his interests with ours. That is exactly my point. Deadskins says we just sit back and if and only if we give a rats behind because it's in our selfish interests, we'll do the minimum to help him because we don't care otherwise.
Groucho: Man does not control his own fate. The women in his life do that for him

Proverb: Failure is not falling down. Failure is not getting up again

Twain: A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way

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