Time to consider dumping Helton...

Washington Redskins' Game Day discussions for 2003, 2004, and 2005
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Time to consider dumping Helton...

Postby skinsfanno9 » Sun Oct 05, 2003 8:46 pm

If not now, DEFINITEY the day the season is over. That guy blows big chunks. He has done everything to take pro-bowl calibur Olinemen and make them the most inconsistent, most penalized group in the NFL.

He truly is a horrid assistant. Spurrier actually said in the post game press conference to go ask the Oline coach for an explanation.

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Postby woohit56 » Sun Oct 05, 2003 9:08 pm

Time to really debate about this for sure. SS didn't even sugar coat it...but this is not the only thing that blew the game.

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Postby skinsfaninroanoke » Sun Oct 05, 2003 10:00 pm

I dunno - try protecting a QB with 5 men all the time against overload blitzes bringing 7 men. I just don't see that any line coach is going to get miracles done.
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Postby NC43Hog » Sun Oct 05, 2003 10:04 pm

Anyone know where Joe Bugel is?

Seriously, it's a little earlier to jump ship - most of the false starts are audible realated. Don't you start to cringe everytime you see P-Ram go into audible mode. It's like just waiting for the flinch. Geeezzzzz.

We also never really tried to establish any kind of running game early. About 8 out of the first 10 plays were pass. Got to mix it up SS like we thought you had learned.

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Postby skinsfanno9 » Mon Oct 06, 2003 7:04 am

Its pretty clear Spurrier is going to continue to audible. This makes sense with a blitz coming I think...maybe not elsewhere. I just don't see how this has to mean the lineman jump offsides. These guys are paid enough money to have a little more concentration. Worse, they didn't do this only a few short years ago (coaching issue here).

The Giants did the old hand holding thing when they played at Fed-ex. Is anyone considering that?

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Postby BossHog » Mon Oct 06, 2003 8:42 am

They don't seem to be doing ANYTHING to fix the problem... that's the most frustrating part.

Hold hands... stay in the shotgun... silent snaps... REALIZE THAT AUDIBLING is getting your QB killed!

While I don't think that it can be ignored that Helton obviously needs to GO based on performance... as Rich said, can you really expect 5 guys to block 7?

And it hasn't been mentioned yet, but.... how much of this is SOS fault? Not the o-line problem... but the audibling problem. Why does Ramsey need to change nearly EVERY play sent in by the guy who is supposed to be masterminding the offense?

I thought we audibled more on Sunday than any other game, and I just couldn't believe that Spurrier could have caled so many plays that needed to be checked.

I thought SOS out-coached BellyCheck last week but I thought Jim Johnson schooled the ballcoach yesterday.
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Postby NC43Hog » Mon Oct 06, 2003 9:07 am

BossHog wrote:I thought SOS out-coached BellyCheck last week but I thought Jim Johnson schooled the ballcoach yesterday.


Amen, SS went back to his old - I am going to force my will even if it doesn't work - mentality.

The line isn't the complete problem - whatever happened to a rollout - move the QB out of the pocket every once and a while for goodness sakes. Do Something!
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Postby NikiH » Mon Oct 06, 2003 9:45 am

Yeah I think alot of the blame lies on SS. I mean how many coaches would go into the first half with a game play of Pass pass pass and come out in the second half and scratch their heads and say "Well it didn't work in the first half, let's try it again!" We need an adaptable coach here. And the only thing he seems to want to adapt to is lossing. Our defense again played pretty well but don't you think they'd be better if they didn't have to spend so much damned time on the field??? I am not a naysayer and I know no team can be perfect. I'm just getting frustrated being a football novice and having to scream at Ramsey through my tv to stop the darned audibles. I am like you speek, everytime I see him do that I am screaming at the tv jumping up and down saying "stop that!" I guess we will see if we learned, next week. Maybe we can get it together before we meet up with the Cowboys! I for one cannot handle any more of these last minute losses. I thought for sure we'd put it together and at least take it to overtime! MVP for me John Hall. He made mistakes in the Giants game but he definitely redeemed himself here. Beautiful onside kick and nice attempt for the second one. Too bad our guys couldn't hussle and get to the ball. My one question here is, is it typical to call a passing play where the 2 point conversion is involved. I kept screaming give it to Cartwright, Canidate, or even let Morton try to run it. Why pass when we had been passing all day, they knew it was coming! Oh well. I'm not the coach and I need to learn they cannot hear me from my living room. LOL
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Postby NC43Hog » Mon Oct 06, 2003 9:55 am

NikiH wrote:My one question here is, is it typical to call a passing play where the 2 point conversion is involved.


We never worked to establish a running attack the whole day, plus we don't have a dominant bruiser runner like Davis or Riggins anymore - and our line was moving backwards more that forwards. Cartwright is small (although he packs a puch) and Candidate is not a short yardage back. The pass play was a good call if P-Ram had hit an open Coles. Just an execution problem that sealed our fate.

Bottom line, we didn't play well enough to deserve to win! I think we are still way better than last year, but I want to see a semi-clean game from all areas of the team - Offense, Defense and Special teams. Oh, and let's not forget COACHING - we were outcoached miserably yesterday.
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Postby HitDoctor » Mon Oct 06, 2003 10:12 am

skinsfaninroanoke wrote:I dunno - try protecting a QB with 5 men all the time against overload blitzes bringing 7 men. I just don't see that any line coach is going to get miracles done.


I just want them to STAY ONSIDES!!!!!!
it is what it is

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Postby BossHog » Mon Oct 06, 2003 10:22 am

I just want them to STAY ONSIDES!!!!!!


Yeah but some of the flinching comes from the linemen's realization that there's a blitz on and not enough protection... and some of it comes from expecting them to stay in their 3-point for half a minute all the time.

Both coaching problems, though some of the latter is on Ramsey.... both fixable.
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Postby RedskinsFreak » Mon Oct 06, 2003 12:46 pm

BossHog wrote:
I just want them to STAY ONSIDES!!!!!!


Yeah but some of the flinching comes from the linemen's realization that there's a blitz on and not enough protection... and some of it comes from expecting them to stay in their 3-point for half a minute all the time.

Both coaching problems, though some of the latter is on Ramsey .... both fixable.


The Eagles blitzed on almost every down because of the depleted secondary.

There should have been a bigger commitment to max pro and trust the WRs -- especially Coles -- to beat the backup DBs 1-on-1.
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O-line and Game overall

Postby BryenJ1982 » Mon Oct 06, 2003 2:27 pm

i'm a skins fan that goest to school in Carbonale, IL (Go Salukis) so we rarely get skins games. Yesterday was hell for me!!

What the hell was up with Dockery. He got schooled yesterday by Walker. He was shaking in his freakin panties. He committed 2 false started on the same drive for God Sakes!!!!

The O-line was the reason we lost that game yesterday, no doubt about it. the defense played very well. Armstead moves great for an old man :D. Trottier had the big INT, even d-line played well at times.

I came into this season worrying about a few differnt things, one of which was not the offensive line. If they don't do somthing about it, Ramsey will literally get killed by Tampa Bay's defense. We need Fiore back ASAP because Sapp & McFarland will destroy Patrick..no matter how tough he is.

Who even knows if Fiore will make that much of a difference. I guess we'll see on Sunday

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Postby NikiH » Mon Oct 06, 2003 3:03 pm

You cannot blame Dockery. Is there another rookie out there that has been made to step up like this. He is a rookie and making rookie mistakes. Blame our roster and not Dockery. Personally I think if Fiore is there and Dockery is put in NOT for the entire game he will be ok. The first year on your job did you not make any errors. And the audibles to boot. I guarentee that Dockery was not ready for that crap every single play!
Whenever I start to get blue, I just breathe!

My favortie line from the Simpsons:

Flanders: "Looks like someone is having a pre-rapture party!"

Homer: "No Flanders, it's a meeting of gay witches for abortion , you wouldn't be interested!"

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Postby NC43Hog » Mon Oct 06, 2003 4:12 pm

Dockery had his moments - good and bad. Unfortunately when they were bad, they were really bad (the interception to Kalu - totally missed his block).

What we knew was he is a work in progress, what we found out is it is more work that we had hoped.

Upside - he blocks the sun in most stadiums.
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