Matt Bowen

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Postby BossHog » Wed Nov 12, 2003 9:17 am

This Bowen thread is funny.

I blew the 'Bowen is here' horn harder than anyone at camp but he has been a HUGE disappointment.

Who the hell cares what his stats say? There isn't a WR in the league scared to go over the middle of our secondary. He is definitely not doing his job. His padded stats come from haviong a LB corps that sits so far off the line MANDATING that the safety makes some stops.

He doesn't blitz very effectively, he doesn't defend the pass all that well and he hasn't laid a snot bubbler yet. In my opinion, if you haven't done any of those things after 9 games at safety... you're average at best. the bears are the worst team in the NFL and he couldn't crack their starting lineup either... maybe he just practices a lot better than he plays.

Some of it is the d-line... no doubt about it. But arm tackles and missed tackles are just poor execution and have nothing to do with the line.

Roy Williams may be the BEST safety in the league already though, so it's probably an unfair comparison.
Sean Taylor was one of a kind, may he rest in peace.

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Bowen

Postby Hogbutt » Wed Nov 12, 2003 12:11 pm

Texas Hog, If you LOVE Roy Williams so much, You're in Texas. Why Don't you join up with Dallas and hit the road. We are with the Skins thru thick and thin.
If you think Bowen has been the problem you have'nt
been watching the same games we have. I thought all the Penalties were the Problem, then no Blocking,
Then the Coaching. It goes on and on. Football is the ultimate team sport pal. You win as a team and lose as a team. Last time I looked Bowen had NO penalties.
And A *sh$t* D line, That leaves the Opposing offense
to T OFF on our Linebackers. The D backs are out to DRY. In a cover Two the safeties are back, so run support on the Defense is LATE.

Study Football schemes Pal. SEE YA!!!!!

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Postby BossHog » Wed Nov 12, 2003 12:27 pm

A newbie doubting TH's love of the skins :shock: :lowblow:

I smell a trip to the smack forum coming... which according to our rules is where all posts that are not of a PG nature belong. Profanity is not allowed on the board except there hogbutt :-)

As for Bowen... as I said above, I think he has been a bit of a dosappointment, though I admit that perhaps my standards were set a little too high based on his training camp performance. I do think that we need a good safety still, but I think that if we had a really good one, Bowen would definitely be fine as the other.

He has started to come around as of late, and as skinsfaninroanoke alluded to... his head's been on a swivel and he hasn't really been permitted to play his position effectively.

But that STILL doesn't change the missed tackles and missed INTs.

I still like the guy, so I hope that he can step it up a little.

As for Roy Williams... I love the guy too... what does that have to do with anything? The guy is awesome... and to have such a presence as only a sophomore is pretty scary. This guy is going to be a permanent fixture in the pro bowl for the next decade.

There is a search function for the forums hogbutt... you might just want to check out some of TH's previous posts about the Cowboys before you sail down that river. :up:

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Sean Taylor was one of a kind, may he rest in peace.

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Postby skinsfaninroanoke » Wed Nov 12, 2003 4:44 pm

One of the things I would like to point out is that a bloodthirsty, dive and tackle killing safety is the one most likely to miss because he leaves his feet. Just one point to think about. Most of the times I have seen Bowen miss - he is midair and trying to pop the crap outta someone. I have seen him make several good hits and at least three decleaters.

Of course, a juking RB makes it hard to get a decleater on them, on purpose.

Yes, a DL would make the safety better. He could cover the pass more exclusively and be watching the QB and not the RB as much. This would allow him to get in position to make the hard hits as the WR starts to catch the ball.

Right now we are using the safeties partially as safeties, partially as linebackers. That is a BAD thing.

I don't feel like I am one who is looking for something nice to say, btw - I have been one of the biggest detractors of the defensive scheme on the board because I feel like it is extraordinarily weak scheming. Take a look at the state of the defense report I wrote giving the defense a D.

I still believe we have very good players there, like Upshaw, Russell, Arrington, Trotter, Armstead, Bailey, Smoot and yes, Bowen. I think there are a couple of weak links - Smith chasing the sack title on obvious run plays is idiotic. Iffy getting caught out of position is inexcusable for one of his time in the NFL. Terrell is hit and miss. Bauman and Lott are improving, but not there. Frantz I like though I don't see him much.

I think if we spend our draft picks on DL and DBs we could be one of the best defenses in fact as well as talent. A good beefy first rounder for DT might tip the scales. Russell, as rusty and out of football shape as he is, is still demanding double teams ALREADY. And... he has beaten the double teams a few times to make good plays. One more on a similar scale as he is will make the line the new steel curtain. Wynn, Upshaw, Zellner don't play badly at all on the ends, but because one guard and the center could take on the DTs one on one, the ends are getting double teamed in a lot of cases, and the blitzers are not getting through. Two massive tackles pulling to opposite sides of the OL opens the center to Trotter. Pulling them to one side opens the OL to Arrington or Armstead on a slant blitz.

There is talent, I just wonder about the schemes. Most DBs look awesome when the QB makes a rushed throw - interceptions and batted balls are a lot easier when the QB is throwing in a hurry.
Rich in Roanoke
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Postby redskincity » Wed Nov 12, 2003 5:03 pm

Stats are Stats are Stats. I dont care and dont know what games you are watching. Because none of his hits did not made Sports Center???? The hole team is a disappointment. Whats funny is the problems on defense you guys want to pen it on Bowen. Last time I check on defense, the ultimate stat is Tackles. Wow, you guys really dont know the sport. Psssss please learn the sport compete and then tell me about. The defense is a team oreinted task with eveyone doing there respective tasks. Now what I ask is, what do you want from our safety besides scaring people =; ROTFALMAO
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Postby skinnns » Wed Nov 12, 2003 6:16 pm

I'm pretty sick of having to read these posts as well.

So, Bowen isn't a top of the league Safety. He was acquired on the cheap and is the equivalent of a 4th(?) round draft pick. Most of the people who have trashed Bowen on this site seem to still be mad the Skins passed on Doss. What they don't understand is if they hadn't passed on Doss, he would be on the field WITH Doss.

The safety positions in Edwards defence are interchangable. I personaly find Bowen to be a bright spot. He isn't a game changing safety neccessarily, but he is also in his first year starting, hasn't hit his prime yet, and has been put out of position by his coaches(he shouldn't ever be covering Keyshawn or Glenn).

Any ways that's just one man's opinion and I'm not trying to put anyone out, including Edwards. But I feel most people have been looking at Bowen through the eyes of people who are mad we drafted a Florida WR over Doss.

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Postby skinsfaninroanoke » Wed Nov 12, 2003 6:31 pm

::chuckle::

I dunno if it is people put out with not drafting Doss, but the first year starting, not to mention changing defenses is a good point.

Maybe Edwards doesn't game plan as well as the DC for GB and Bowen isn't in position as well because he isn't recognizing something, or is hesitant? It could be any friggin number of things, so before I judge, I am letting time go past. I misjudged Mike Stock and his special teams are doing much better with time.

I believe Edwards may be good, but he is such a green rook when it comes to actually calling the entire defense it scares me. When I see him not adjusting, or going to the prevent, bend but don't break, cover 2 or any of these damn "play not to lose defenses" when the score is close and time is running out I start to sweat.

Bowen is a product of the system and the people around him. One thing to notice is that several times he has been coming in from another part of the field to make a play on someone that a CB screwed up on, or more likely, a LB in a zone against a friggin WR.

I hate zones - this is the mantra :)

Zones are pre planned defensive coverages that are based on patterns. Patterns can be analyzed and broken. Just as formations can be read. To see WR crossing across the middle under the linebackers makes my heart skip because I know they are gonna be open. LB can't cover speedy WR underneath that way. Bowen ends up having to come up and try to stop someone catching the ball on a LB, or a RB coming out on the flat, or a TE, or a run play, or a WR catching one on the 30 yard out pattern that kills a cover 2 with no pass rush.

See what I mean? No DL, no pass rush, no run def, safeties have to shrink up some to cover the run, watch the RB, WR takes a cut and the safeties are watching the play action to make sure it isn't a run and the WR is now 4 yards open.

The scheme sucks, people - not the players.
Rich in Roanoke
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Postby redskincity » Wed Nov 12, 2003 8:54 pm

=D> =D> Thats all I was trying to say SkinsRoanoke. =D>

No pass rush = No Cover 2. Cover 2 + No pass rush = being picked apart. Getting beat long and getting beat short. :idea:

Lavar is a Probowler where is his sacks? Its the Scheme
people X2


Ifeanyi Ohalete 55 =D>

Matt Bowen 50 =D>

Roy williams 39

Sammy Knight 53

Rodney Harrison 71 :shock:

Lawyer milloy 53

John Lynch 39

Darren Sharper 53

Kwamie Lassiter 54

Brock Marion 45

Mike Doss 67 :-k

:hmm: I did not see any stats for intimidation =;
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Postby skins75 » Thu Nov 13, 2003 9:00 am

SkinCity before you start to inform all of us about this game called football let me point out a couple of things. First off dont tell me to learn a game that I can school you on any day of the week. Second off the reason Bowen is being as you say "pointed out" is because you started a column or whatever to give him props. The entire defense needs to step up not just Bowen but NONE deserve any praise(at least at this point). Anyone who has the nerve to compare Bowens stats with that of the talent of Roy Williams needs to sit down and do a little studying of the game themself.

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Postby skinsfaninroanoke » Thu Nov 13, 2003 10:24 am

C'mon folks - were all on the same team and rooting for the same team... right?

There are points to both sides and opinions all around...

Let's take it easy or take it to the smack forum ok?

I think we can argue stats and game plans without making it personal.
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Postby skins75 » Thu Nov 13, 2003 1:49 pm

Agreed!

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Postby redskincity » Thu Nov 13, 2003 2:49 pm

skins75 wrote:I have to disagree with you SkinCity. It is absolutely sad that one our leading tacklers is Matt Bowen. With the talent of our LB core Bowen shouldnt be even close to leading the team. He was brought in to provide crushing blows to the opposition and so far he is not a threat over the middle. I would rather see him get burnt once in a while and lay killer hits on whoever dares catch the ball in his area.


Skin75 which weighs more, a pound of steel or a pound of feathers? Geeeeeeeeeeeeesssssshhhhh!!!! ROTFALMAO

to imply the opposite or a denial
So when SS went out and got Matt he told him his job was to deliver smashing blows over the middle?? Even though he is a unproven starter?? ROTFALMAO

If you know the game you wouldn't be arguing with the fact that his stats are consistent with the other top safeties in the league. Personality is your arguement. Work ethic is mine :up:

Skin7 look at the big picture not the type of paint used! :roll:

I proved my point. :wink:

Stats dont lie. Stats are a tool that people and organizations use to determine the outcome of certain activities being guaged.

Agreed!!! Skinroanoke.
• NFL Championships
1937, 1942, 1983, 1987, 1991
• Conference Championships
1936, 1937, 1940, 1942, 1943, 1945, 1972, 1982, 1983, 1987, 1991
• Division Championships
1972, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1987, 1991, 1999,
• All-Time Record:
515-465-27

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Postby skins75 » Thu Nov 13, 2003 4:52 pm

Anyone who has watched any of the games understands the reason our safties are getting so many tackles isnt superb play on their end...its just poor play by the LB's and DL. Whether its the scheme or not doesnt change the fact that Matt Bowen doesnt deserve praise. I think that we are going to just have to agree to disagree.

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Postby redskincity » Thu Nov 13, 2003 5:04 pm

If you dont have a good performing line thats what the Safety stands back there for. :wink: Case closeed


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• NFL Championships
1937, 1942, 1983, 1987, 1991
• Conference Championships
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• Division Championships
1972, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1987, 1991, 1999,
• All-Time Record:
515-465-27

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